[PVP]Scenario balance suggestion

[Annaise16]

Giving pugs 2-2-2 will do nothing for competitiveness with premades. The difference between the two groups is too large to be solved by a queueing system.

And God forbid that we should see 12v12 pug v pug scens with 4 tanks on either side guarding and 4 healers healing. No one will get a kill and the scens will be 15 minutes of boredom.

[Nameless]

2-2-2 is not a way to make pugs winning over premades but instead making more equal the fights when pug faces pug.

[Tklees]

The manager will not (and should not) attempt to form optimal groups. It should limit itself to ensuring a reasonable prevalence of required archetypes. Anything beyond that is up to the players to solve by forming groups.

I am rather with Aza. Giving pugs 2-2-2 makes them less able to compete with a premade. Having the same setup but worse comunication, gear, skill will not result in a win. Pugs would profit from more dmg to get through guard or from more heal to outlast premades. With the current quality of pug dps (combined with the missing voicecom for better assist) you cant really get through guard with equal numbers.

do we honestly think pugs are going to beat the top end of the premade bracket no matter what this manager does? Its more a quality of life increase for them. They may not beat premades but they in theory should be able to compete better with a proper setup. But Im playing devils advocate at this point i feel like.

[Jaycub]

I wouldn't think anyone here thinks that TK, hopefully not :^)

This change, combined with others should make things easier on PUGs. Those other changes being 6v6 group only ques, and possible solo que only scenario(s) and possibly other things. Of course these things have to fit into the current population of the server to ensure that these systems do not negatively effect ques times too much.

[Annaise16]

2-2-2 is not a way to make pugs winning over premades but instead making more equal the fights when pug faces pug.

Early in this thread one of either TK or Azarael stated that the 2-2-2 was aimed at making pugs more competitive with premades. That is wishful thinking.

Pugs don't need 2-2-2 composition to have competitive scens. For a start, most scens available to pugs are 12v12. So you are really talking about 4-4-4 if the 2-2-2 is going to apply to both groups. And as I stated in an earlier post, if you've got pug scens where two-thirds of the population are tanks and healers, you have scens where there aren't going to be many kills. And in pug scens, kills equate with fun. Its better to have a scen packed with dps that finishes 40 kills to 30 than to have one heavy with tanks and healers that ends with 5 kills each. I once did a 6v6 Gates of Ekrund that was mostly tanks and healers that ended with a 2-1 kill count. And 2 of those kills came in the first minute when there was a population imbalance. It was 14 minutes of torture and compared very poorly with the 12v12 Highpass cemetery scen where the combined kill count ended at 150. Why do you think people enjoyed so much those evenly balanced Stage 3 city fights that ended with 200 kills each? It wasn't just because the fights were close. It was because everyone racked up big numbers.

Like I said in an earlier post, if you are looking at balancing pug v pug scens, just try to get at least 2-3 healers for both sides in a 12v12 scen. Good healers can solo heal pug v pug scens, bad healers need a couple buddies. After you have the healers, its better to have extra dps than extra tanks because that increases the kill count. Kills = Fun!

[Annaise16]

I wouldn't think anyone here thinks that TK, hopefully not :^)

This change, combined with others should make things easier on PUGs. Those other changes being 6v6 group only ques, and possible solo que only scenario(s) and possibly other things. Of course these things have to fit into the current population of the server to ensure that these systems do not negatively effect ques times too much.

It'll certainly be easier not to lose a scen when they rarely pop.

[Annaise16]

If you want to reduce the number of premade v pug scens, introduce some 6v6 scens that you can queue for only if you are in a 6-man group. If you can get that working, you will have fewer premades in pug scens because they will already be in a scen against another premade, and so not in the queue when the next 12v12 scen pops.

The premades could still queue for the 12v12 and 18v18 scens, but hopefully they won't be in the queue when those scens pop because they will already be in a premade v premade scen.

[Annaise16]

By the way, the spelling of the word is 'queue', not 'que'. 'Que' is a French word that has a number of meanings, none of which that are in any way similar to the English word 'queue'.

[Compo]

And who cares about its a french word ?
Dont asking yourself why everybody here want to fight against dogs ?

Spoiler:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pug

2-2-2.
2 Dmg-Zealots , 2 half naked sorcs und 2 full strg Choosen without guard.
Why should the game adjust everything ? Maybe in the Future someone wants to let some players log in only at Midnight ?

[Azarael]

Archetype balancing using solo players has been implemented. Solo queue scenarios will not start unbalanced, but if any groups are queueing then the manager will prioritise, but not force, archetype balance instead.

The scenario will not fill using solo players unless it can balance the archetypes while doing so or one side is missing a lot of players.

If people want 1/4/1 or 1/3/2 priority I can add bias to the queue, but that's for later. Guess 2h tanks have their place.

DPS AM and Shaman are treated as DPS by the queue logic. This is determined by Int greater than Willpower. Accordingly, the bitching at players running these specs may stop.