Regen stuff need a nerf

[Sulorie]

Chosen's have worse group buffs, so they have the edge elsewhere. You know, classes are not equal among mirrors, just similar.

Solo balance was never the target, classes are not designed to be balanced solo. There is always someone stronger solo, you can try to change faces but this will most likely break classes elsewhere.
Accept that there is no equal playing field for individual classes. It is that simple.
You want to play solo? Pick a class good at it and accept that you might encounter someone who cleanses the floor with your corpse.

The group buffs aren't disimilar enough to warrant that big of an edge. Back when knight actually had better buffs in both 2h and SnB this was plenty made up for by chosen having the parry buff(s) and just in general better damage already. They lost one of the coolest things they had, Crippling Strikes at one point, but that still doesn't justify the slew of stuff they gained while knight didn't really benefit at all in ways of fun stuff. Chosen specifically was buffed in all areas while retaining 99% of their existing kit. Knight was nerfed accross the board and got nothing for it, not even buffs to make them solo monsters like chosen in some misguided attempt at letting them DPS in groups. (99% sure someone simply wanted to rekk plebs solo as opposed to that being the case, but both are equally ridiculous explanations for the mistakes.)

And regardless of solo not being a primary balancing point, it most certainly needs to be a balancing point to some degree. Buffing things to the point where they are entirely obnoxious even without a group never went well. Way too many people pug/solo in various forms to let clear outliers just stomp everything. Overbuffing something is simply bad deisgn and ruinous to the health of the game even if it doesn't tip the scales in group play to a broken degree.

Live Kotbs was way ahead of chosen, there are reasons Kotbs got more nerfs since then.
Crit buffs for party and stackable 15% healing for party is better than anything chosen offers for group. You pay a price for being less independent and "solo-friendly" but like I said, it was never designed like that.
Some classes just happen to be flexible enough to use them solo with greater success than others.

[jafh123]

I hardly see them (Regen WE) in-game anymore, let's discuss something real instead? Like how ridiculous the shaman class is. When a faction is like 30 % one class( shaman) you know something is off with the balance. The green little pricks are everywhere since they are OP. I see some Order complain about SH but the thing that makes these SH seem like overtuned is the OP shaman that accompanies them, casts their broken shaman M1 morale which of course means the SH can win easily.

A SH by himself( even the best ones) will again die to WL's , a good WH etc.

Could you please name 3-5 shamans that are op? I’m thinking we can examine their solo track record together and determine if they truly are op

Shaman, as every class, has its counters. They are "OP", or really strong, against certain classes, while other classes can laugh at them or even kill them if they are not careful.

[what63]

Chosen's have worse group buffs, so they have the edge elsewhere. You know, classes are not equal among mirrors, just similar.

Solo balance was never the target, classes are not designed to be balanced solo. There is always someone stronger solo, you can try to change faces but this will most likely break classes elsewhere.
Accept that there is no equal playing field for individual classes. It is that simple.
You want to play solo? Pick a class good at it and accept that you might encounter someone who cleanses the floor with your corpse.

The group buffs aren't disimilar enough to warrant that big of an edge. Back when knight actually had better buffs in both 2h and SnB this was plenty made up for by chosen having the parry buff(s) and just in general better damage already. They lost one of the coolest things they had, Crippling Strikes at one point, but that still doesn't justify the slew of stuff they gained while knight didn't really benefit at all in ways of fun stuff. Chosen specifically was buffed in all areas while retaining 99% of their existing kit. Knight was nerfed accross the board and got nothing for it, not even buffs to make them solo monsters like chosen in some misguided attempt at letting them DPS in groups. (99% sure someone simply wanted to rekk plebs solo as opposed to that being the case, but both are equally ridiculous explanations for the mistakes.)

And regardless of solo not being a primary balancing point, it most certainly needs to be a balancing point to some degree. Buffing things to the point where they are entirely obnoxious even without a group never went well. Way too many people pug/solo in various forms to let clear outliers just stomp everything. Overbuffing something is simply bad deisgn and ruinous to the health of the game even if it doesn't tip the scales in group play to a broken degree.

Live Kotbs was way ahead of chosen, there are reasons Kotbs got more nerfs since then.
Crit buffs for party and stackable 15% healing for party is better than anything chosen offers for group. You pay a price for being less independent and "solo-friendly" but like I said, it was never designed like that.
Some classes just happen to be flexible enough to use them solo with greater success than others.

Live was indeed a completely different story, with the crit tactic being actually good, and stacking with the second crit tactic, which was also far better. But if we take just under a decade worth of RoR as point of ref, all knight really had going for it over chosen was a measly 5% crit buff and the healing buff from very early on. The healing buff was also indirectly nerfed to be attached to a nigh useless aura after said aura ate a nerf, and as such coming with far heavier opportunity cost beyond the tactic slot.

Chosen has gotten so much work that it now even carries a tactic that provides the party with twice over the value of Dirty Tricks in crit reduction, for example. The healing buff and dirty tricks simply aren't the arguments they used to be. Effectively what has happened, is that the differences that would back up your argument have been largely ignored over the years in favour of equaling out the group utility, but at the same time, one side of the equation has been given massive additional buffs to support the more "independent" style of play while the other has gotten naught.

Chosen simply isn't a class that "happens to be solo-friendly", it's a class that was heavily buffed over time to provide more and more for the group, more and more for itself, and got a very specific set of buffs allowing said independence in addition to all that. Someone simply wasn't happy with making chosen match knigth closer in utility, it had to absolutely blow every other tank out of the water in terms of solo fun on top.

But then again, it is fairly irrelevant in the end, the numbers speak for themselves. There is absolutely no sign of sanity behind the changes when looking at the raw amount of stats granted in addition to the changes on the crit tactic. They are entirely unreasonable any way you look at them, especially now that there has been some measure of normalization done to tank abilities.

[Bozzax]

I hardly see them (Regen WE) in-game anymore, let's discuss something real instead? Like how ridiculous the shaman class is. When a faction is like 30 % one class( shaman) you know something is off with the balance. The green little pricks are everywhere since they are OP. I see some Order complain about SH but the thing that makes these SH seem like overtuned is the OP shaman that accompanies them, casts their broken shaman M1 morale which of course means the SH can win easily.

A SH by himself( even the best ones) will again die to WL's , a good WH etc.

Could you please name 3-5 shamans that are op? I’m thinking we can examine their solo track record together and determine if they truly are op

Shaman, as every class, has its counters. They are "OP", or really strong, against certain classes, while other classes can laugh at them or even kill them if they are not careful.

Seriously though can anyone (having trouble myself) name a few op shamans so we can look at their actual performance? (Solo kills only)

[reynor007]

Chosen's have worse group buffs, so they have the edge elsewhere. You know, classes are not equal among mirrors, just similar.

Solo balance was never the target, classes are not designed to be balanced solo. There is always someone stronger solo, you can try to change faces but this will most likely break classes elsewhere.
Accept that there is no equal playing field for individual classes. It is that simple.
You want to play solo? Pick a class good at it and accept that you might encounter someone who cleanses the floor with your corpse.

The group buffs aren't disimilar enough to warrant that big of an edge. Back when knight actually had better buffs in both 2h and SnB this was plenty made up for by chosen having the parry buff(s) and just in general better damage already. They lost one of the coolest things they had, Crippling Strikes at one point, but that still doesn't justify the slew of stuff they gained while knight didn't really benefit at all in ways of fun stuff. Chosen specifically was buffed in all areas while retaining 99% of their existing kit. Knight was nerfed accross the board and got nothing for it, not even buffs to make them solo monsters like chosen in some misguided attempt at letting them DPS in groups. (99% sure someone simply wanted to rekk plebs solo as opposed to that being the case, but both are equally ridiculous explanations for the mistakes.)

And regardless of solo not being a primary balancing point, it most certainly needs to be a balancing point to some degree. Buffing things to the point where they are entirely obnoxious even without a group never went well. Way too many people pug/solo in various forms to let clear outliers just stomp everything. Overbuffing something is simply bad deisgn and ruinous to the health of the game even if it doesn't tip the scales in group play to a broken degree.

Live Kotbs was way ahead of chosen, there are reasons Kotbs got more nerfs since then.
Crit buffs for party and stackable 15% healing for party is better than anything chosen offers for group. You pay a price for being less independent and "solo-friendly" but like I said, it was never designed like that.
Some classes just happen to be flexible enough to use them solo with greater success than others.

No one in ROR received more nerfs than Kotbs, at the same time Chosen received the most buffs for solo play. chosen OP because of stupid tactics 15% chance of crit damage + spirit chanel (one of the most powerful tactics in the game, even just 15% crit is very strong, and here are 2 of the strongest effects in one) remove the spiritual channel, and this class will completely cease to exist OP, even despite the second OP tactic demonclaw, which was originally an exclusive tactic for Kotbs, but after the nerf it became useless, and chosen got its better alternative

[reynor007]

Could you please name 3-5 shamans that are op? I’m thinking we can examine their solo track record together and determine if they truly are op

Shaman, as every class, has its counters. They are "OP", or really strong, against certain classes, while other classes can laugh at them or even kill them if they are not careful.

Seriously though can anyone (having trouble myself) name a few op shamans so we can look at their actual performance? (Solo kills only)

https://youtu.be/phzBd5asn1M?si=oAN4n6eKjID3ex1w
https://youtu.be/LqjMPDeN5BY?si=UofiGaLzBU-8-GGZ


of the shamans that are playing now this is probably fishstick

[jafh123]

Shaman, as every class, has its counters. They are "OP", or really strong, against certain classes, while other classes can laugh at them or even kill them if they are not careful.

Seriously though can anyone (having trouble myself) name a few op shamans so we can look at their actual performance? (Solo kills only)

https://youtu.be/phzBd5asn1M?si=oAN4n6eKjID3ex1w
https://youtu.be/LqjMPDeN5BY?si=UofiGaLzBU-8-GGZ


of the shamans that are playing now this is probably fishstick

I have fought him a few times and he's strong, but not OP. Most people that cry about shamans are just losing cause it's a bad matchup for their class, not because the class is OP.

[reynor007]

Seriously though can anyone (having trouble myself) name a few op shamans so we can look at their actual performance? (Solo kills only)

https://youtu.be/phzBd5asn1M?si=oAN4n6eKjID3ex1w
https://youtu.be/LqjMPDeN5BY?si=UofiGaLzBU-8-GGZ


of the shamans that are playing now this is probably fishstick

I have fought him a few times and he's strong, but not OP. Most people that cry about shamans are just losing cause it's a bad matchup for their class, not because the class is OP.

bro you use 360 ​​resist oil, which not everyone can afford, you also use full regeneration, you have a lot of block, and 45% of the disruption is due to the shield, of course he will never be able to kill you, just like you can’t kill him , he can just use 2 detaunts and you won't do any damage, in any other sham OP fight, the exception is AM (but he probably won't be able to kill a good shaman and regen WL)

[jafh123]

https://youtu.be/phzBd5asn1M?si=oAN4n6eKjID3ex1w
https://youtu.be/LqjMPDeN5BY?si=UofiGaLzBU-8-GGZ


of the shamans that are playing now this is probably fishstick

I have fought him a few times and he's strong, but not OP. Most people that cry about shamans are just losing cause it's a bad matchup for their class, not because the class is OP.

bro you use 360 ​​resist oil, which not everyone can afford, you also use full regeneration, you have a lot of block, and 45% of the disruption is due to the shield, of course he will never be able to kill you, just like you can’t kill him , he can just use 2 detaunts and you won't do any damage, in any other sham OP fight, the exception is AM (but he probably won't be able to kill a good shaman and regen WL)

Everytime I fought him I killed him (3 times). I do enough damage to kill shams unless they are healing spec'd (and sometimes these die too) or use armor talis. The AM's I've dueled have died too. Everything is on the killboard (including some AM's).

The 360 resist oil is usually really cheap compared to other linis. In the end these are just tools. If you don't use the tools available to counter other classes then of course they are going to seem OP.

[reynor007]

I have fought him a few times and he's strong, but not OP. Most people that cry about shamans are just losing cause it's a bad matchup for their class, not because the class is OP.

bro you use 360 ​​resist oil, which not everyone can afford, you also use full regeneration, you have a lot of block, and 45% of the disruption is due to the shield, of course he will never be able to kill you, just like you can’t kill him , he can just use 2 detaunts and you won't do any damage, in any other sham OP fight, the exception is AM (but he probably won't be able to kill a good shaman and regen WL)

Everytime I fought him I killed him (3 times). I do enough damage to kill shams unless they are healing spec'd (and sometimes these die too) or use armor talis. The AM's I've dueled have died too. Everything is on the killboard (including some AM's).

The 360 resist oil is usually really cheap compared to other linis. In the end these are just tools. If you don't use the tools available to counter other classes then of course they are going to seem OP.

Now I have questions for him, I don’t think there is at least one class in the game that can kill a shaman by dealing him 37.5% of his initial damage, he was definitely doing something wrong