Change buff/debuff caps from ability based to core

[Bozzax]

Identify the issue

Buff/debuff max values are ability based and your buff/debuff caps are determined by what friendlies and enemies that are present.

Explain why it's an issue

Counting only the strongest buff/debuff of each type strongly favours classes with best of breed buff/debuff and solidifies the ALPHA setups to a point where some classes become mandatory.

Propose a viable solution to the problem

Change buff/debuff max values (cap) from being ability based to core and allow stacking of buffs/debuffs up to the hard cap (or soft cap)?

[Scrilian]

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I somehow find it hard to understand what you propose.
Can you give an example with somekind of debuff calculation that would solidify this as an important matter, that needs to be changed?

[Jaycub]

I've been saying this for a long time, however this would require a total retooling of most buffs/debuffs and re adjustment or removal or stat caps.

Otherwise you just reign in a new meta where people build groups and characters around buffing themselves to 1050 in almost every important offensive and defensive stat and that would totally kill any kind of character builds outside of how you spend your mastery points.

As far as it being an important matter, just look at why some tanks are consider better than other, it usually boils down to their debuffs being worthless because some other class can cover it better, and if you look at the recent shaman/AM threads one of the biggest grips is their buff is in the same predicament.

[Bozzax]

Example
2 IBs debuffing my shaman (at 25 grudge) currently would result in 200 armor (counting only the strongest).

Same 2 IBs (at 25 grudge) would debuff 400 armor if it is changed.

Also 5 IBs (at 25 grudge) would be allowed to debuff my shaman 1000 armor (5x200). So stacking is allowed within a debuff type up to the cap value.

10 IBs (at 25 grudge) would debuff my shaman up to the cap value.

The debuff/buff caps would be same for all classes just like stats. So same for orcs, dwarfs, humies and elf

[Joshwa70]

You mean you want blast wave and thunderous blows to stack.... no ty

[Bretin]

great idea to buff the zerg and make braindead AoE bombing even better.

i vote NO(!)

[Jaycub]

I think you guys are dismissing the idea too fast, the ways things are now are pretty boring and don't allow for much. Things could definitely be tweak so certain situations don't come up and so that it doesn't get retarded in large scale ORvR.

Things could stack either additively or multiplicitively up to certain point, and debuffs/buffs from the class could be made to never stack etc...

[Tiggo]

great idea to buff the zerg and make braindead AoE bombing even better.

i vote NO(!)

dont forget that BUFFS would also stack, say Spirit Res Pot +200 with KOTBS Aura.

though i guess at the end its a null game.

[Bozzax]

You mean you want blast wave and thunderous blows to stack.... no ty

No multiple debuffs would stack up to the cap.

I'd also expect TB to be above the cap which raises the questions if a single buff should be allowed to debuff above the cap. Personally I'd say yes.

That would allow multiple IBs to debuff my Shaman up to the max armor debuff while a WL can still debuff me 1600 (above max debuff value).

[Bozzax]

great idea to buff the zerg and make braindead AoE bombing even better.

i vote NO(!)

In a zerg vs 6 I would typically expect you to be affected by all the ALPHA debuffs regardless. I also expect the ALPHAs debuffs to be well above the max values (caps).

If we are worried 2 x Chosen or KOTBS stacking resists debuff one could consider only allowing stacking of different abilities within a type. So counting only one of the 2 Chosen/KOTBS debuffs while still allowing it to stack with other resist debuffs from other classes.

I guess this could also be seen as an improvement as it promotes not running 2 of same class.

EDIT: personally I'd prefer if all debuffs even of same ability was allowed to stack especially ST ones. AOE debuffs stacking may be a problem though