Battle for Praag

[mursie]

Curious how others feel regarding the 18 v 18 BFP.

primetime NA seems to be a bit Order heavy atm, and 18 v 18 is really difficult to overcome when one faction clearly has the better players logging.

in my opinion, an organized group can somewhat carry in a 12 v 12 but as the numbers swell and one faction is clearly superior, it is extremely difficult.

I know we don't have any other 18 v 18's atm... so if this is the designated one, so be it. It's a great sc.

[Scrilian]

SynqQ 3 6mans, enjoy the dessies burn to a crisp :3

[Jaycub]

I think its a fresh breath of air from 12v12.

However I feel like an organized 6 man can carry better in a 18v18 situation, generally the lower amount of players in a given scenario the more important their play and group comp becomes, meaning if you get a bad pug group in a 12v12 it is going to hurt you much more than in 18v18. This goes for pretty much any PvP/competitive game I think.

Different numbers of players on both sides also means the meta for that particular scenario is going to be different, AoE comes at a much higher premium for instance.... engineer/magus and bomb sorc/bw perform much better here for example.

6v6 group que only EC soon as well.

[Tesq]

i like 18 vs 18 but would not be better have a bigger sc for 18 vs 18 ?

[Jaycub]

i like 18 vs 18 but would not be better have a bigger sc for 18 vs 18 ?

Howling Gorge will probably be 18v18 as well? Or at least I hope.

IDK tho it would be nice to have more than 1 "zerg" scenario, BFP becomes quite fun 18v18 because everyone is constantly funneled into 1 area and there is constant somewhat large scale combat. HG plays much differently (or at least I remember it so) where many smaller scale fights take place concurrently all over the map rather than in 1 area, again meaning a drastically different meta for that SC in terms of group comp or viability of certain specs/roles.

[mursie]

However I feel like an organized 6 man can carry better in a 18v18 situation, generally the lower amount of players in a given scenario the more important their play and group comp becomes, meaning if you get a bad pug group in a 12v12 it is going to hurt you much more than in 18v18. This goes for pretty much any PvP/competitive game I think.
.

That is interesting. 6 people carrying 6 pugs can be hard enough. You think it is actually easier for 6 to carry 12 pugs?

[Rebuke]

When 1 pug group has bad composition in a 12v12, 50% of your fighting force is ****.
When 1 pug group has bad composition in a 18v18, 33 1/3% of your fighting force is ****.

[Shadowgurke]

If you play premade + pug vs. full pugs then the only way you can lose is if the allied pug is really bad, low level or no heals. More pugs means less volatility

[mursie]

When 1 pug group has bad composition in a 12v12, 50% of your fighting force is ****.
When 1 pug group has bad composition in a 18v18, 33 1/3% of your fighting force is ****.

Your response isn't really addressing what I'm saying (i.e. 6 carrying 12 or 6 carrying 6). Your response is an entirely different scenario. 6 carrying 6 or 12 carrying 6.

Agreed, if you have 12 people who know what they are doing, then 12 carrying 6 is easier than 6 carrying 6.

[Jaycub]

That is interesting. 6 people carrying 6 pugs can be hard enough. You think it is actually easier for 6 to carry 12 pugs?

I'll try to elaborate on it a bit more.

When there are only 12 people in a scenario on each team, each players performance and the performance of their respective group is more important than say 18v18 or 24v24. This is because each death or kill on either team carries more weight behind it.

Looking at 2 extremes, 6v6 - 24v24... In the 6v6 situation losing a healer means your team has lost ~50% of it's healing capability with that 1 persons death, in a 24v24 situation losing a healer means your team has only lost 1/8th of it's total healing capability, if we assume 2-2-2 group comps. This also means there are 7 healers who can res that person rather than just 1 who also is now the lone healer in that situations. This can be applied to DPS/Tanks in terms of damage output lost and gaurd etc...

The main point being with lesser amounts of people their actions carry more weight, and their mistakes are more costly.

I could be wrong, and not thinking of something obvious but this is how I feel.

Spoiler:

Having 12 meat shields instead of 6 also means the scenario doesn't turn into the entire enemy team vs your 6 man as fast :^)