Firstly this topic isn't for the issue of pugs v premades so take that discussion elsewhere.
So anyway, I'm sure you've all sat in scenarios that were over in less than 2mins. One wipe, pushed to your warcamp. Try to push out, fail. Then sit in warcamp for 15mins waiting for the end. This situation is no fun for either side, and when it persists over multiple scenarios, causes people to log out or relog to the other faction.
Now losing is part of pvp, however no one wants scenarios that regularly end 30+ kills to 0. Could we do something to help the side that's being completely smashed? Winning a balanced scenario is far more satisfying, and when both sides are able to get kills then the renown begins to flow.
I'd suggest something like:
If the winning side has "n" times more kills than the losing side then the losing side gets a buff that increases outgoing damage/healing and reduces incoming damage. This buff would then increase in strength if the losing side continues to be dominated. But would stop increasing and begin to decrease in strength as the losing side begins to get kills. Thus the buff would balance out inadequacies of the weaker side.
Thoughts?
Fixing boring unbalanced scenarios
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- saupreusse
- Former Staff
- Posts: 2479
Re: Fixing boring unbalanced scenarios
i think the biggest problem is not that the teams are unbalanced in skill.
people leaving a scenario after being pushed back one time without being punished is really annoying.
a lot of ppl just say no to every scenario they get wiped in the first two minutes.
Also the timer in the beginning should be a bit longer so it wont happen so often, that one side has much more players in the beginning than the other side.
A lot of these early frustrating pushes are caused by unblanced numbers of players.
people leaving a scenario after being pushed back one time without being punished is really annoying.
a lot of ppl just say no to every scenario they get wiped in the first two minutes.
Also the timer in the beginning should be a bit longer so it wont happen so often, that one side has much more players in the beginning than the other side.
A lot of these early frustrating pushes are caused by unblanced numbers of players.
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- Posts: 91
Re: Fixing boring unbalanced scenarios
What a jkaltharion1 wrote: If the winning side has "n" times more kills than the losing side then the losing side gets a buff that increases outgoing damage/healing and reduces incoming damage. This buff would then increase in strength if the losing side continues to be dominated. But would stop increasing and begin to decrease in strength as the losing side begins to get kills. Thus the buff would balance out inadequacies of the weaker side.
Thoughts?

Re: Fixing boring unbalanced scenarios
Anything that is going to buff the combat effectiveness of a particular side is something that should never be brought into any PvP game.
The way imo to stop the problem is just make holding objectives in certain scenarios worth more, and kills in others worth more, so blowout scenarios don't last so long.
Reikland factory is a pretty well designed scenario in that holding 3 objectives will make a particular side win extremely fast. It is near impossible to spawn camp because there is 3 ways out of the spawn the are totally covered and guarded.
MT is one of the worst because if a side is too dominant the other side just hides in spawn and that forces the winning side to basically AFK w/ the part for 10 minutes while they stare at the other teams spawn.
The root of the problem is of course the disparity between teams and the solutions usually presented by games (MMR/Skill brackets, separation of solo players, fragments, full groups, and fixed roster teams, and leagues/tourneys etc...) are all very population dependent to work properly, which this server currently cannot use to any real effect.
It's no secret that there are guild groups queing up and getting put against teams they have no business playing against, but take for instance late NA when you are lucky to have 2-3 concurrent scenarios in t3 going on... having any kind of separation or MMR/skill braket would just totally kill it and nothing would really pop, people would get even more tired than they are now and just leave the game.
The way imo to stop the problem is just make holding objectives in certain scenarios worth more, and kills in others worth more, so blowout scenarios don't last so long.
Reikland factory is a pretty well designed scenario in that holding 3 objectives will make a particular side win extremely fast. It is near impossible to spawn camp because there is 3 ways out of the spawn the are totally covered and guarded.
MT is one of the worst because if a side is too dominant the other side just hides in spawn and that forces the winning side to basically AFK w/ the part for 10 minutes while they stare at the other teams spawn.
The root of the problem is of course the disparity between teams and the solutions usually presented by games (MMR/Skill brackets, separation of solo players, fragments, full groups, and fixed roster teams, and leagues/tourneys etc...) are all very population dependent to work properly, which this server currently cannot use to any real effect.
It's no secret that there are guild groups queing up and getting put against teams they have no business playing against, but take for instance late NA when you are lucky to have 2-3 concurrent scenarios in t3 going on... having any kind of separation or MMR/skill braket would just totally kill it and nothing would really pop, people would get even more tired than they are now and just leave the game.
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Re: Fixing boring unbalanced scenarios
If anyone remembers the heroic defender buff u got from killing a ram, that could be used but without wanting to steal someone else idea i believe it was Aza who mentioned this a long time ago.
When you respawn in a scenario you get the heroic defender buff for x seconds, if ppl are unfamiliar here is the description from the wiki " The Heroic Defender Buff grants the following bonuses: Movement speed increase, incoming damage reduction, high resistance to incoming critical, increased chance of outgoing critical, and finally increased morale and AP gain.
The Heroic Defender Buff will fade away quickly if the defender leaves the keep area.".
Idk if it would work but i believe it would be deserving of testing to see.
When you respawn in a scenario you get the heroic defender buff for x seconds, if ppl are unfamiliar here is the description from the wiki " The Heroic Defender Buff grants the following bonuses: Movement speed increase, incoming damage reduction, high resistance to incoming critical, increased chance of outgoing critical, and finally increased morale and AP gain.
The Heroic Defender Buff will fade away quickly if the defender leaves the keep area.".
Idk if it would work but i believe it would be deserving of testing to see.
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- RyanMakara
- Posts: 1563
Re: Fixing boring unbalanced scenarios
SCs that can last the full 15 minutes are: Highpass Cemetary, Tor Anroc and Mourkain Temple. All the others do not last long without a competitive fight. Perhaps Lost Temple of Isha, if the dominating team doesn't care about the flag capture; however, always one enemy sneaks through to go and cap, basically forcing you to recap if you wish to win with a full 500 points.
How about we simply tackle the "camping" Scenarios instead of blanket nerfing all of them?
How about we simply tackle the "camping" Scenarios instead of blanket nerfing all of them?

Re: Fixing boring unbalanced scenarios
Maybe just incentivise fighting on? Would it be possible to add an AAO type system to an SC? If you are losing by X points it starts to kick in?
I disagree with anything that adds damage or defense(bolster is different, it increases your effective lvl). Increase gains for fighting, not the ability to do so.
I do agree with a few SCs could do with having more exits from the spawn. But if you queue for, and accept a pop, for an SC like MKT or Tor Anroc, you enter being aware that it is relatively rare for "balanced" fight. However, I would submit that a large portion of players don't want a balanced fight. They enjoy smashing and crushing everything that gets in their path. Adding a way out of the spawn point, maybe a teleporter to another far corner of the map in each spawn? this would allow ganking and fighting outside of the spawn, and with an AAO type system people would love getting those solo kills and the end of a SC, even if they are losing horribly.
I disagree with anything that adds damage or defense(bolster is different, it increases your effective lvl). Increase gains for fighting, not the ability to do so.
I do agree with a few SCs could do with having more exits from the spawn. But if you queue for, and accept a pop, for an SC like MKT or Tor Anroc, you enter being aware that it is relatively rare for "balanced" fight. However, I would submit that a large portion of players don't want a balanced fight. They enjoy smashing and crushing everything that gets in their path. Adding a way out of the spawn point, maybe a teleporter to another far corner of the map in each spawn? this would allow ganking and fighting outside of the spawn, and with an AAO type system people would love getting those solo kills and the end of a SC, even if they are losing horribly.
Re: Fixing boring unbalanced scenarios
You probably can never go without a SC or two being unbalanced, simply because random players with their current gear and expertise are queuing all the time. So there's always a chance for a team to be really bad or no team at all. That's just the way it works, I guess.
Probably the only workaroud would be only to have SC for premades, and that's not gonna happen, I think.
But I think Dabbarts idea with AAO when you stay and fight and have no chance anyway ain't that bad to begin with. But I have the feeling there are a couple of problems associated with it should it happen.
Probably the only workaroud would be only to have SC for premades, and that's not gonna happen, I think.

But I think Dabbarts idea with AAO when you stay and fight and have no chance anyway ain't that bad to begin with. But I have the feeling there are a couple of problems associated with it should it happen.
"I am Grace, too. But roll a healer if you need healing..." - Tudik (WP@SC)
"I've heard it reported but do not know how to reproduce." - Azarael

"I've heard it reported but do not know how to reproduce." - Azarael

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Re: Fixing boring unbalanced scenarios
The problem isnt with the scenarios, its with premades who get in one of these scenarios vs pugs, destroy them, and then avoid the parts to let them "farm" for 15 minutes, just to prove how hardcore they are. A combat bonus would do nothing, neither would increased rewards for winning by points.
Only reasonable solution would be to either alter the problem scens so they end faster or take them out of the rotation entirely. Ive yet to meet someone that doesnt hate highpass, so why not start with that one.
Only reasonable solution would be to either alter the problem scens so they end faster or take them out of the rotation entirely. Ive yet to meet someone that doesnt hate highpass, so why not start with that one.
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- TenTonHammer
- Posts: 3806
Re: Fixing boring unbalanced scenarios
the main issue with scenarios is the system not working correctly yet that results in unequal arch type distribution like 3 healers vs 1 and stuff

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