Keep lord feedback (abilities) and outnumbered defense

[navis]

Hey,
Keep lords are working fairly well but IMHO they still have a distinct 'PvE' feel to them, and I believe it would be undoubtedly better to try and move away from this by adjusting some lord abilities.

Some will defend that it's intentional and that this requires 'skill' and coordination. That is true.

However, it also brings an element of PvE strategy which I feel has too much negative impact in relation to the positive, I'm talking about Lord reset from Taunt changing.
- when players come to have fun at keep and don't realize they must conform or change their rotation, else negatively impact all of RvR (not just themselves)
- when certain groups of coordinated players are trying to be the 'alpha' in an open zone with no players restrictions (not a private instance).
- the possibility of x-realm griefing via taunt abusing. I have seen cases where this was likely the #1 reason for repetitive Lord resets. Hard to say 100%, though.

Offer new set of abilities for Keep Lords
- drastic increase of Lord debuffs on players (from 25% to 75-95%), which in turn require the player to cleanse
- if the player uses PvE tactic on Keep lord (taunt with PvE spec aggro increase) Lord make a silly comment like "XXXX you are going to die you filthy piece of XXXX using PvE tactics in PvP lands.." And Lord then proceeds to 1 shot that player(s) with ST or AOE or 30ft.
- regular Lord ability to debuff all outgoing damage by 99% until buff-type can be cleansed
- regular Lord ability which can cause return damage on damage type (phys/magic) until buffs can be cleansed
- rare Lord ability to resurrect players within 100ft of Lord if certain condition met
- Lord can enrage.

Overall these suggestions offer nothing really new but just implement in a way that is different than it is currently, I'm not asking for all these things. Ideas to consider that is all.

For further ideas I think it would be a big improvement for RvR in general for very weak realms to have more options for defense. When few players are present overwhelming oppostition players historically just flee and don't try to fight. This is the worst possible outcome when RvR becomes Keep trading.
- Area around oil means insta-kill for defenders because of Rdps aoe hitting on Oil
- Other powers available to players when AAO is too great such as very dangerous or very defensive possibility
- Orbs may spawn around keep for Defenders to give them tools (buffs) to extend the battle as long as possible
- If possible could add extra 'granted' abilities, too.
- Keep guards could offer healing to players.

cheers

[Toldavf]

I feel as the defenders in a big siege you already have the advantages of a strong fall back position and the high ground. Attack is already more difficult than defence, if the balance is largely in favour of one side that is when the greatest risk of xrealming arises.

Trust me the last thing you want is to give a solid 6 man with large aao buffs.

1 shotting is a silly mechanic for any type of game play, the only time its employed is prevent players from entering a certain area.

[Darosh]

[...]while they will receive some tweaks, especially in relation to BO control as it stands the premise is fine.

How about a movement decrease for the lord, maybe?
1 BO -10%
2 BOs -15%
3 BOs -20%
4 BOs -30%
Or x%, however you wanna scale it and incentivise the BO play.

Sadistic pipedreams:

Spoiler:

You could add a bonus for full domination, i.e.:
Upon capturing all four BOs and holding them for <t> the Lord becomes 'almost' immobile for <t>, breaks upon definitive loss of a BO.
Or partial domination, i.e:
Per <t> the BO is being held by the Lord's movement speed is decreased by x% up to a maximum of y%, breaks upon definitive loss of the BO.
Or a pingpong mechanic, i.e:
Per (<t> a) BO (is) being held the Lord's movement speed increases/decreases by x% up to a maximum of y%, breaking upon definitive loss of the BO(s).

The latter would probably kick the resets into overdrive and upset quite a bunch of people...

It'd give the realms a shot at compensating for terribad play by playing the objectives past the point of breaking through inner; the Lord would move slower and the players would have more time to react ~ to emergency taunt or spam the chat for the derp that is about to reset him. There wouldn't be any impact to the established, general gameflow.

Most importantly, people would lose another dead horse to flog.

Abbd.: Haven't been online/participating in a siege for quite a while and never really paid attention to it: Can the Lord actually get snared? Either way, might be an appropriate ducttape-approach.

[adamthelc]

I have no problem with ignorant people making a fight harder. My issue is with how it makes it harder.

I have seen a lot of boss mechanics, this fight is unique in how it makes it harder. I dont think its a good design to make the only difficulty of a fight is trying to keep the boss from healing back to full.

Though in a way it does seem to support the purpose of the lord, which is to give the defending side more time.

Personally I think the lord would be better if had ranged attack with a long range that ignored LoS. If no one is in melee range of the boss, THEN it resets.

I realize there are a lot of things to consider like preventing cheezy exploitative strats that make the lord trivial. But the penalty for doing the boss wrong is not a good one. If someone does a fight wrong, they or their allies should die, the boss shouldnt heal back to full.

I could go on and on about why I think its a bad design, but what it boils down to is that its not hard and its not fun. Yet its still a pain in the ass.

Dont want to seem to critical, its not game breaking. I dont know if its possible to make the Keep lords very good, but this current version has major flaws.

[Darosh]

Again, for the last time, your own realms stupidity is not something we are going to ever be able to eliminate nor will we nursemaid you through it, that's your job to compensate for.

Also kiting the Lord isn't coming back.

Kiting the Lord wasn't the purpose of this suggestion, and could be combatted with pull/ranged abilities - the emphasis was on incentivising the BO play (as per the bit in your post) with a spin (concerning the Lord) in accordance to OP's suggestions.
It would essentially play out like it does now, as frankly no one gives a **** about the BOs once people circlejerk around in the keep.

It quintessentially would give you the opportunity to point towards a mechanic (that can - but effectively won't - help) whilst telling people off.
I couldn't care less whether derps reset the Lord 24/7... at some point in time, in the (very, very, ohh so very) distant future people will eventually learn to not be stupid.
I'd personally vouch for the sadistic approach and speed the Lord up for every BO lost to the defending realm, to speed up the learning process - linking that process mechanically to the BOs would have several nice sideeffects (one of them being the above mentioned interactions with the community, another one would be incentive to spread the blobs across the map - thereby combatting the ridiculous lag), just saying.
If the prospect of preventing/causing resets won't get people to spread out over the map and play the BOs... nothing will.

But meh, bruteforce and hypotheticals.

E: Punctation.

[Toldavf]

It's hard enough to co-ordinate people when they all speak the same language.

An attacking warband is already jumping though enough hoops to achieve a lock.

The game is meant to be fun, so can we keep it that way without making things overly complex.

[Valarion]

My recommendations would be to:
Increase the level of threat gained from challenge/taunt.
Boost the cumulative gains of this threat over time
Increase the radius the Lord uses to reset himself (right now its ridiculously short)
Dramatically reduce the radius the Lord uses to run after people

Even if some asshat pulls aggro, the center circle of tanks can pull it back. Right now something wonky is going on with threat. I cant even hold aggro with my full rotation of pve tactics and I often seen some idiot enter the room once and pull full aggro away.

[Hargrim]

You can't taunt-reset Keep Lord nowdays.

[wargrimnir]

Healers spamming group heal on groups of fully healed players is bad.

Overhealing generates extra threat.

[navis]

I have no problem with ignorant people making a fight harder. My issue is with how it makes it harder.

I have seen a lot of boss mechanics, this fight is unique in how it makes it harder. I dont think its a good design to make the only difficulty of a fight is trying to keep the boss from healing back to full.

thank you, you've grasped the main idea of my post.

\
There are mechanics in place to deal with taunt /reset abuse.

Unless this is something recently implemented in last week or so, your response doesn't support that statement.

I couldn't care less whether derps reset the Lord 24/7... at some point in time, in the (very, very, ohh so very) distant future people will eventually learn to not be stupid.

You could care less, but again, RvR is not a private instance so why should a whole realm be punished because of individuals. There are many other mechanics that could be used. Such as ones I mentioned which could require more actively monitoring the buffs given/recieved.

It's hard enough to co-ordinate people when they all speak the same language.

An attacking warband is already jumping though enough hoops to achieve a lock.

The game is meant to be fun, so can we keep it that way without making things overly complex.

Precisely what I suggest to improve with these ideas. Make it easier by using more sensical mechanics which have more impact on individual players, if they play improperly or not as intended. "hoops" is very familiar mechanics found all over this game and other MMO's, so nothing new. Besides I think players would respond positively to actaul challenging gameplay. That has been my experience with all games, ever.