Seiges

[BeautfulToad]

One thing i notice in RvR is that attackers have a number of disadvantages, and while it should be hard to seige, a number of games seem to hinge on waiting for the other side to seige, fail and watch their numbers disentigrate in a short period of blaming each other and rage quitting leading to a successful counterseige with massive numerical advantage.

Is there anything that can be done to encourage one side taking the iniative in RvR? I am thinking something like the gates never being able to reach 100% again if they have been breached once, perhaps being kept at 75% if breached once, 50% if breached twice, etc.

[Onemantankwall]

Cant fix l2p issues, wanna win sieges grab a guild tag like BT, TUP, L2P, PnP, BDM nothing ralleys the pug morale like seeing a shiny premade on the field. i'm also attempting enemy side fighting morale drain tests with whole wb coordinated emotes to try to thin the enemy zerg. War is a mind game after all and one loses fighting spirit when a group of 24 steamrolls your blob and emotes ya all at once

[BeautfulToad]

In 200 v 200, a 24 man premade warband get wiped in a seige. If anything my point is if a premade seiges constantly (in my example 8 seiges in total - outer wall and inner) and continually beats the enemy in the field, there should be a chance of winning by attrition, however long that may take.

[Solutar]

Im going to type something here too, as i agree that sieges as Attacker have a bit of an issue atm.

First I would like to adress that the whole Gameplay of the RvR changes when numbers increase in a Zone. By that I mean, if you have in a Zone a, lets say 50vs50, the Sieging works, cause the Rams Life, the Gate Life, the Oil Life etc. seems to be made for such a Situation with, relatively, low numbers. That itself is actually no Problem, the Problem is that you cant properly adapt to a specific Change:
Server Population has changed over the last year, or even more Time, and we have Fights like 120vs120 or even MORE. That changes the Gameplay of Sieges significantly. For example, as there are more ppl Fighting and defending a Keep, the Ram takes more Damage from those that Jump down Walls or come out of the Gate who can die with no Problem cause they get revived anyway. YES, it is different if you have 10-20 hitting a Ram or 50! Now many ppl will say, well, pull the Ram away from the Gate so it doesnt get killed by the enemy. Sure you can try to do that, but that becomes also nearly impossible with increased numbers Fighting. Ranged DPS using AOE infront of Gate, especially when they are organised, makes it extremely hard to get Ram away before it loses nearly Half of its Life cause of the many ppl hitting Ram by coming in and out of Gate or Jumping of Walls. You can handle that Situation a Little bit better by getting Gate to 50% but by that Time its most of the Time already to late.

I also wanna adress what was already said About what you can do already to improve that Situation, which was mostly join a Guild that does organised WB Events. I dont see it Happening that every Player on this Server is going to join such a Guild for whatever Reason, there will be ALWAYS in RvR Pug Wbs running around and they will also not be as organised as a premade WB, and frankly, they shouldnt have to. The Game should be open(that doesnt mean free win) for Casual Players too to win in a Siege Fight or Zone Fight over all, without having as much coordination as a premade WB has.

So, now what do i think what should Change to have some constructive criticism here: Improve Life Of Oil, Gate and ESPECIALLY Ram with the Change of Population in a Zone to a higher Number.

Ty everyone for reading.

[CoffeeForAll]

It might help to disallow the use of the main gate while the ram is on it.

[Armoz]

Order has no problem getting their stuff figured out, what we do on order side less than destro does is RUN PREMADES. we actually work together and figure stuff out together. Too many premades on destro side is the problem why destro can't really stay on the same levele of aggression and intensity. You can't expect people to come and follow you if your chat is toxic . PUG is the way to go when its RVR time because you need the numbers in order to win. Running premades all day long and hoping people will bite is going to be a long wait. Map is a clear indication that something is fundamentally wrong on destro side. Drop your egos, run less premades and take control as a realm leader, get people to work together and win. when you do that onec, twice and even three times, people will take notice that "hey we can follow this guy because we keep winning". I do that on Order side, not as often as i would want because im willing to let others figure things out, but we dont have big egos trying to ruin everything, it happens sometimes but that's just human nature to fight back when someone is giving you orders. But if you become that voice in the community,that name people recognize winning with, then you have already done something most people haven't.

A friendly suggestion to my beloved Destro players.

Premades is not a way to go in RVR, get people involved, if you still want to lead your premade warband then that's ok, but communicate, talk to people. Show them leadership and they will follow.

[suomy]

Each class in game has unique abilities when it comes to sieging ie BLork shield from oil and Zealot repair ram and so on. As far as I am aware these abilities have been removed from game, simple solution to sieging is to reintroduce these abilities to the game they where there for a reason and to remove them imho is a mistake. It might make it so the sieging realm can actualy manage to complete a siege instead of having to respawn rams 5 or 6 times before getting into a keep.

[Alfa1986]

I also do not really like the existing zone capture system, but maybe it is for now most optimal. why should the attacking side have advantages? in theory, the advantage should be given to the defenders. For example if the number of people in the zone is 150 * 150, then in principle it is very difficult to capture the zone to someone side. and standoff in one zone can be arbitrarily long. on the other hand, if in the zone there are 150 attacking and 100 defenders, then the attackers fairly quickly capture all the direction, take the fort and the zones of this direction generally cease to be playable for a while.

[BeautfulToad]

why should the attacking side have advantages? in theory, the advantage should be given to the defenders.

I agree, my only point is that currently in big RVR battles, there is not a big tactical incentive to attack if a game is tight, and order and destro have roughly the same number of warbands. This means RvR can run into a stalemate for hours, until one side gets bored and seiges.

As others have said there is a number of possible things that could be done to make seiges a bit more competitve in large cases (and probably most importantly not be exploited), and remain largely the same in smaller scale seiges.

[Ototo]

Order has no problem getting their stuff figured out, what we do on order side less than destro does is RUN PREMADES. we actually work together and figure stuff out together. Too many premades on destro side is the problem why destro can't really stay on the same levele of aggression and intensity. You can't expect people to come and follow you if your chat is toxic . PUG is the way to go when its RVR time because you need the numbers in order to win. Running premades all day long and hoping people will bite is going to be a long wait. Map is a clear indication that something is fundamentally wrong on destro side. Drop your egos, run less premades and take control as a realm leader, get people to work together and win. when you do that onec, twice and even three times, people will take notice that "hey we can follow this guy because we keep winning". I do that on Order side, not as often as i would want because im willing to let others figure things out, but we dont have big egos trying to ruin everything, it happens sometimes but that's just human nature to fight back when someone is giving you orders. But if you become that voice in the community,that name people recognize winning with, then you have already done something most people haven't.

A friendly suggestion to my beloved Destro players.

Premades is not a way to go in RVR, get people involved, if you still want to lead your premade warband then that's ok, but communicate, talk to people. Show them leadership and they will follow.

This is also the reason why destro have less numbers. It's an incredibly unfriendly realm for casual players that just want to PUG in a WB for 1-2 hours of spare time, then leave for their real lifes.

You are not supposed to enter the game to see a 15mins chat discussion between the 3 or 2 wb leaders that actually want to communicate, neither to move forward to see how a completely unknown wb is moving away from everything and just doing their things cause they are a premade and they are too much elite to join the combined fight effort.

I play both sides, and no matter what you try to say, destros, cause this is exactly what happens, and why eventhough T1 have a bigger destro pop most of the times, T2-4 have a lower one. They simply leave to the other realm or try it for a class they want to play in order, notice that are not treated like trash by their high RR peers, read a completely normal rvr chat were leaders communicate, and enjoy the game.