Recent Topics

Ads

Keep Lord Aggro Problem - Buff Menace, Tanking NPCs in RvR

We want to hear your thoughts and ideas.
Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use

In this section you can give feedback and share your opinions on what should be changed for the Return of Reckoning Project. Before posting please make sure you read the Rules and Posting Guidelines to increase the efficiency of this forum.
User avatar
Dobzse
Posts: 76

Keep Lord Aggro Problem - Buff Menace, Tanking NPCs in RvR

Post#1 » Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:06 am

Since the abbility rework healing agroo is a little bit too much I'd say. While healing agroo was a thing back on live it was not as disturbing the way it is now.
There has been plenty of times where the keep lord is switching on a healer due to their agroo reset abbility, in some cases reseting the keep lord.
Due to this it is extermly frustrating to tank the keep lords nowdays. Same goes for any mechanic in the pve dungeons where you are unable to build proper agroo on bosses in Bastion Stairs (with manace equipped ofc.).
I'm not sure if this was by design or it is an area being overlooked, but as a tank player it makes you feel useless.
You might aswell just have another dps in the party who can overagroo anybody in the group and then specc for defensive so he can maintank while doing dmg.

Another issue with being a tank while engaging the inner section of any keep, you must sacrafice a tactic slot to equip menace in order to try to hold agroo on the keep lord, fortress lord. In normal circumstances you must be out of combat in order to be able to equip the tactic, this is most likely not the case. Because as a tank you are expected to guard others, be first one to jump on the ram, be the first one to go in when pushing into fights.

Therefore my suggestion would be to allow tanks to equip menace if they want to as a renown tactic or as a tome tactic. I don't think that it would hurt any balance issues to finally allow your tanks to stay powerfull using 4 tactic slots to enhance your skills and be able to hold agroo at the same time.

So please dear devs consider buffing tanks in general, and allow us to equip menace as a tome tactic or renown tactic so we are able to do our jobs and hold agroo.

Hazmy: Changed the Title of the Post ( Agreed by OP ) to give it more clarity and visibility for others to contribute.
Last edited by Hazmy on Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Dreadnari - Chosen
Chuckz - BlackOrc
Xalzius - Magus
Dreadclaw - White Lion
Boombastic - Engineer
Dobzse - Knight of the Blazing Sun

Ads
User avatar
Fey
Posts: 790

Re: Buff Menace Tactic -Healing Agroo in Keep fights, Tanking NPCs in RvR

Post#2 » Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:21 am

Not a bad suggestion frankly. Implement it as a tome tactic just to see if tome tactics work.
Fley - Zealot Domoarigobbo - Shaman
Squid - Squig Squit - B.O.
Black Toof Clan

User avatar
Scottx125
Posts: 968

Re: Buff Menace Tactic -Healing Agroo in Keep fights, Tanking NPCs in RvR

Post#3 » Thu Mar 21, 2024 9:10 am

I don't think tanks should be able to hold non-stop aggro. It should require managing between the DPS, Healers and Tanks in order to maintain aggro.
Spoiler:
Seiigfrid RR 8X WP | Arthasus RR 7X KOTBS | Zalthazar RR 5X BW
Image
For the Gif in it's full glory:
Now a member of Oath.

User avatar
Dobzse
Posts: 76

Re: Buff Menace Tactic -Healing Agroo in Keep fights, Tanking NPCs in RvR

Post#4 » Thu Mar 21, 2024 9:29 am

Scottx125 wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 9:10 am I don't think tanks should be able to hold non-stop aggro. It should require managing between the DPS, Healers and Tanks in order to maintain aggro.
to follow your logic healers should not be able to heal non-stop, and dps should not be able to dps non-stop..
And you can already see while there is a lack of tank players in the game, or why it takes sometime ages for a dungeon group to find a tank that is willing to join them to kill pve bosses.

I'm not suggesting holding agroo should be given, you still have to fight for agroo just like now.
Another solution would be to raise the amount of agroo tank skills do so they can keep up/climb back when there is an agroo reset.
But to my understanding the baseline of "agroo" on every skill right now is based on how much dmg/healing the skill does, except of course skills like taunt/challange/detaunt etc.
Dreadnari - Chosen
Chuckz - BlackOrc
Xalzius - Magus
Dreadclaw - White Lion
Boombastic - Engineer
Dobzse - Knight of the Blazing Sun

User avatar
Scottx125
Posts: 968

Re: Buff Menace Tactic -Healing Agroo in Keep fights, Tanking NPCs in RvR

Post#5 » Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:50 am

Dobzse wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 9:29 am
Scottx125 wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 9:10 am I don't think tanks should be able to hold non-stop aggro. It should require managing between the DPS, Healers and Tanks in order to maintain aggro.
to follow your logic healers should not be able to heal non-stop, and dps should not be able to dps non-stop..
And you can already see while there is a lack of tank players in the game, or why it takes sometime ages for a dungeon group to find a tank that is willing to join them to kill pve bosses.

I'm not suggesting holding agroo should be given, you still have to fight for agroo just like now.
Another solution would be to raise the amount of agroo tank skills do so they can keep up/climb back when there is an agroo reset.
But to my understanding the baseline of "agroo" on every skill right now is based on how much dmg/healing the skill does, except of course skills like taunt/challange/detaunt etc.
Healers and dps have detaunt and should be actively using it in both PvE and RvR. Imo a tactic that is required to hold aggro is pretty boring gameplay. What I'm saying is it should be an active effort between all archetypes to manage aggro..
Spoiler:
Seiigfrid RR 8X WP | Arthasus RR 7X KOTBS | Zalthazar RR 5X BW
Image
For the Gif in it's full glory:
Now a member of Oath.

User avatar
Frankie
Posts: 48

Re: Buff Menace Tactic -Healing Agroo in Keep fights, Tanking NPCs in RvR

Post#6 » Thu Mar 21, 2024 11:46 am

Scottx125 wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:50 am
Dobzse wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 9:29 am
Scottx125 wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 9:10 am I don't think tanks should be able to hold non-stop aggro. It should require managing between the DPS, Healers and Tanks in order to maintain aggro.
to follow your logic healers should not be able to heal non-stop, and dps should not be able to dps non-stop..
And you can already see while there is a lack of tank players in the game, or why it takes sometime ages for a dungeon group to find a tank that is willing to join them to kill pve bosses.

I'm not suggesting holding agroo should be given, you still have to fight for agroo just like now.
Another solution would be to raise the amount of agroo tank skills do so they can keep up/climb back when there is an agroo reset.
But to my understanding the baseline of "agroo" on every skill right now is based on how much dmg/healing the skill does, except of course skills like taunt/challange/detaunt etc.
Healers and dps have detaunt and should be actively using it in both PvE and RvR. Imo a tactic that is required to hold aggro is pretty boring gameplay. What I'm saying is it should be an active effort between all archetypes to manage aggro..
There's an addon to that which I haven't yet figured out, but if aggro would be an extra layer in the game, we would definitely need a working version of that, so it would be visible.
Moirran, Zealot RR40+
Albin, Blackguard <40


Ferenz, Witch Hunter RR40+
Gottlob, Warrior Priest <40

Farrul
Posts: 308

Re: Buff Menace Tactic -Healing Agroo in Keep fights, Tanking NPCs in RvR

Post#7 » Thu Mar 21, 2024 12:37 pm

I have to agree. But why is menace even a tactic? Should be core part of the archetype like pretty much every MMO tank i can remember . Yes a "tank" is supposed to be decent by default with threat generation.

User avatar
Dobzse
Posts: 76

Re: Buff Menace Tactic -Healing Agroo in Keep fights, Tanking NPCs in RvR

Post#8 » Thu Mar 21, 2024 1:39 pm

Farrul wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 12:37 pm I have to agree. But why is menace even a tactic? Should be core part of the archetype like pretty much every MMO tank i can remember . Yes a "tank" is supposed to be decent by default with threat generation.
I 100% agree however there are occasions where people want to play as sort of like a melee dps as a secondary role.
Same for healers they can specc to be dps if they wish to be.
Dreadnari - Chosen
Chuckz - BlackOrc
Xalzius - Magus
Dreadclaw - White Lion
Boombastic - Engineer
Dobzse - Knight of the Blazing Sun

Ads
User avatar
Dobzse
Posts: 76

Re: Buff Menace Tactic -Healing Agroo in Keep fights, Tanking NPCs in RvR

Post#9 » Thu Mar 21, 2024 1:44 pm

Scottx125 wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:50 am Healers and dps have detaunt and should be actively using it in both PvE and RvR. Imo a tactic that is required to hold aggro is pretty boring gameplay. What I'm saying is it should be an active effort between all archetypes to manage aggro..
With the current way how the game was designed this is possibly the easiest way to fix the problem with the least effort. I'd say boring gameplay is better then the gameplay being frustrating/ or disfunctioning. I agree it should be an active effort from the Dps and healers to manage their threat, but not allowing your tanks to do their job to hold agroo just makes this whole issue worse.
Dreadnari - Chosen
Chuckz - BlackOrc
Xalzius - Magus
Dreadclaw - White Lion
Boombastic - Engineer
Dobzse - Knight of the Blazing Sun

User avatar
Hugatsaga
Posts: 184

Re: Buff Menace Tactic -Healing Agroo in Keep fights, Tanking NPCs in RvR

Post#10 » Thu Mar 21, 2024 1:58 pm

Scottx125 wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:50 am
Dobzse wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 9:29 am
Scottx125 wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 9:10 am I don't think tanks should be able to hold non-stop aggro. It should require managing between the DPS, Healers and Tanks in order to maintain aggro.
to follow your logic healers should not be able to heal non-stop, and dps should not be able to dps non-stop..
And you can already see while there is a lack of tank players in the game, or why it takes sometime ages for a dungeon group to find a tank that is willing to join them to kill pve bosses.

I'm not suggesting holding agroo should be given, you still have to fight for agroo just like now.
Another solution would be to raise the amount of agroo tank skills do so they can keep up/climb back when there is an agroo reset.
But to my understanding the baseline of "agroo" on every skill right now is based on how much dmg/healing the skill does, except of course skills like taunt/challange/detaunt etc.
Healers and dps have detaunt and should be actively using it in both PvE and RvR. Imo a tactic that is required to hold aggro is pretty boring gameplay. What I'm saying is it should be an active effort between all archetypes to manage aggro..
Commenting only about PvE here:

I guess aggro-management can be considered as extra minigame or additional layer of challenge but I think its just plain stupid if player gets punished for getting optimal value out of their class by dpsing or healing "too much". It leads into "be average or get punished" type of thing which makes no sense to me. Like currently if tank can't hold aggro and DPS does "too much" dmg, dps has to detaunt and afk 10 sec so tank can get aggro back and afk/downtimes during pve encounters are just not fun. On a side note, WAR has few stupid encounters where you just cant do anything for several seconds (gunbad left wing boss for instance) and hopefully those get fixed/redesigned. Healers might have easier time because you can detaunt on cd and keep on healing but maximizing value from gcd's might mean healer should dps and debuff etc if nobody is in immediate danger and again, getting punished for being effective sucks.

For comparison, WoW Mythic+ I don't recall aggro management being a thing unless very ambitious pull from tank or there's some specific boss encounter mechanic related to aggro but normally challenge comes additional mechanics and players get punished by not doing mechanics and/or NOT dpsing or healing enough and not the other way around. DPS-checks to punish mindlessly dpsing should be in some form of mechanic such as reflect shield which have to be broken by doing something else and then there is burst/damage-pump phase where boss takes additional damage and players get rewarded for doing max dps etc. Or like already in RoR: theres at least 2 encounters (twins in C&T and dog + some khorne guy in BS) where dps have to watch their dps.
Live: Daeneria, Polestar
RoR: Calmdown, Goldman, Kohta, Madguard, Magnumforce, Northsorc, Northstar etc
Youtube

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: gromgor and 4 guests