Tone Down AMs

[Panel]

Given the recent mileage of the "Tone Down Shaman" thread i thought a bit of quid pro quo was needed in the interest of equality. AM is by far the most overtuned class in the game due to the way its trees are designed. All the "business end" dps abilities are in the one tree so that maxing this tree gives a dmg boost before int to all abilities in the tree. This is unavailable to shaman as the same abilities are spread over 2 trees and maxing 2 trees is imposssible. The AM
M1 might be justified if the AM is a healer but on an S tier ranged dps its frankly OP. Then there is the 2 for 1 ability Scatter The Winds where for the low low price of 1 button push the AM applies a dot and a 50% heal debuff. As if thats not enough they also get a 3 for 1 with Radiant Gaze - it applies a dot and reduces targets chance to crit and damage by 5% - not bad for 1 button push. There are far too many classes in the game wearing the shiny "I Win" button and AM has the shiniest. That is all - high time to Tone Down AMs

[Farrul]

These two last threads need to put this message in the right context( Shaman more than AM). Roaming.

This issue more than specific class tools or abilities is the healing /dps hybrid potential which isn't rightly balanced due to the weakness of Willpower as a stat, this results in these classes having a lot of singletarget dps pressure through high intelligence whilst neglecting willpower but still able to have some decent base healing and defensive stats in their itemization.

Hence why the shaman in particular is OP as a hybrid spec ( in roaming context, let's be clear about it)

[Omegus]

Given the recent mileage of the "Tone Down Shaman" thread i thought a bit of quid pro quo was needed in the interest of equality. AM is by far the most overtuned class in the game due to the way its trees are designed. All the "business end" dps abilities are in the one tree so that maxing this tree gives a dmg boost before int to all abilities in the tree. This is unavailable to shaman as the same abilities are spread over 2 trees and maxing 2 trees is imposssible. The AM
M1 might be justified if the AM is a healer but on an S tier ranged dps its frankly OP. Then there is the 2 for 1 ability Scatter The Winds where for the low low price of 1 button push the AM applies a dot and a 50% heal debuff. As if thats not enough they also get a 3 for 1 with Radiant Gaze - it applies a dot and reduces targets chance to crit and damage by 5% - not bad for 1 button push. There are far too many classes in the game wearing the shiny "I Win" button and AM has the shiniest. That is all - high time to Tone Down AMs

Does any of this actually matter outside of single/duo roaming?

[Sever1n]

I would insta trade kits with sham

[live4treasure]

From my experience, dps spec AM and Shaman are actually quite difficult to kill in a 6 man. Spamming cleanses and hots on yourself in addition to two healers, and aoe detaunts, will do that. But that's not really an advantage for them overall, because they equally have trouble killing things.

The issue is there's nothing to tone down. The very nature of them both being classes that have to spend 3 to 4 GCDs to reapply their dots whenever they want to switch targets makes them quite unviable outside of solo/duo roam or pugstomping where half the time the tanks don't know what a guard is. Doesn't matter what you do, you won't kill a guarded marauder in a 6v6, and your dots telegraph your damage heavily, so against a competent team you will always be hitting into a guard. Meanwhile the guarded marauder can in fact kill you. In short, no, the AM isn't an S-tier dps spec, and the shaman is even less so.

So... there's nothing to tone down in either of these classes. If anything, neither tone them down or buff them. Instead, give them the ability to specialize and be useful as a dps in a wider range of content, at the cost of their hybridization for the dps spec, or allow them to hybridize better at the cost of folding under pressure faster with the lifetap healer spec.

[SZ244663]

but

Given the recent mileage of the "Tone Down Shaman" thread i thought a bit of quid pro quo was needed in the interest of equality. AM is by far the most overtuned class in the game due to the way its trees are designed. All the "business end" dps abilities are in the one tree so that maxing this tree gives a dmg boost before int to all abilities in the tree. This is unavailable to shaman as the same abilities are spread over 2 trees and maxing 2 trees is imposssible. The AM
M1 might be justified if the AM is a healer but on an S tier ranged dps its frankly OP. Then there is the 2 for 1 ability Scatter The Winds where for the low low price of 1 button push the AM applies a dot and a 50% heal debuff. As if thats not enough they also get a 3 for 1 with Radiant Gaze - it applies a dot and reduces targets chance to crit and damage by 5% - not bad for 1 button push. There are far too many classes in the game wearing the shiny "I Win" button and AM has the shiniest. That is all - high time to Tone Down AMs

Glad to see someone else thinking the same as I did for this. Thank you for the post!

[salazarn]

From my experience, dps spec AM and Shaman are actually quite difficult to kill in a 6 man. Spamming cleanses and hots on yourself in addition to two healers, and aoe detaunts, will do that. But that's not really an advantage for them overall, because they equally have trouble killing things.

The issue is there's nothing to tone down. The very nature of them both being classes that have to spend 3 to 4 GCDs to reapply their dots whenever they want to switch targets makes them quite unviable outside of solo/duo roam or pugstomping where half the time the tanks don't know what a guard is. Doesn't matter what you do, you won't kill a guarded marauder in a 6v6, and your dots telegraph your damage heavily, so against a competent team you will always be hitting into a guard. Meanwhile the guarded marauder can in fact kill you. In short, no, the AM isn't an S-tier dps spec, and the shaman is even less so.

So... there's nothing to tone down in either of these classes. If anything, neither tone them down or buff them. Instead, give them the ability to specialize and be useful as a dps in a wider range of content, at the cost of their hybridization for the dps spec, or allow them to hybridize better at the cost of folding under pressure faster with the lifetap healer spec.

People are saying don't balance around solo or duo here. I would say don't balance around ranked 6v6. Literally no one cares about it. No one wants to play a wannabe esport and fixing am and shaman for roam content which people actually enjoy is more pertinent

[Zxul]

People are saying don't balance around solo or duo here. I would say don't balance around ranked 6v6. Literally no one cares about it. No one wants to play a wannabe esport and fixing am and shaman for roam content which people actually enjoy is more pertinent

Heh I agree with salazarn's post, thats a new one. Though probably not about shaman.

[live4treasure]

From my experience, dps spec AM and Shaman are actually quite difficult to kill in a 6 man. Spamming cleanses and hots on yourself in addition to two healers, and aoe detaunts, will do that. But that's not really an advantage for them overall, because they equally have trouble killing things.

The issue is there's nothing to tone down. The very nature of them both being classes that have to spend 3 to 4 GCDs to reapply their dots whenever they want to switch targets makes them quite unviable outside of solo/duo roam or pugstomping where half the time the tanks don't know what a guard is. Doesn't matter what you do, you won't kill a guarded marauder in a 6v6, and your dots telegraph your damage heavily, so against a competent team you will always be hitting into a guard. Meanwhile the guarded marauder can in fact kill you. In short, no, the AM isn't an S-tier dps spec, and the shaman is even less so.

So... there's nothing to tone down in either of these classes. If anything, neither tone them down or buff them. Instead, give them the ability to specialize and be useful as a dps in a wider range of content, at the cost of their hybridization for the dps spec, or allow them to hybridize better at the cost of folding under pressure faster with the lifetap healer spec.

People are saying don't balance around solo or duo here. I would say don't balance around ranked 6v6. Literally no one cares about it. No one wants to play a wannabe esport and fixing am and shaman for roam content which people actually enjoy is more pertinent

It's a valid sentiment to not cater towards the absolute topend of the game, but I do have two counterarguments;

1) When you are just roaming in a 6 man group and queing into non-ranked, but also non-discordant SCs when you run up against other premades, you are still in the very same environment where you are facing an enemy premade 6 man team that probably knows how to switch their guards around and cushion clearly telegraphed burst damage.
2) When you are just roaming in a 6 man group and your SC isn't popping, but you run into another 6 man group, you are in a 6v6 situation. If the AM/Sham can't perform in that situation when your group is being tested for their mettle, then what happens next? It rightfully gets labeled as a memespec, which it is. And it's not to do with how much damage it deals, and more to do with how slow you are in switching targets.

This is less about ranked 6v6, and more about premade vs premade, which includes roaming groups too, in short. And look, I'm not saying you should buff these two classes, but I am saying perhaps having the ability to build in such a way that it diminishes one aspect of them to better specialize into the DPS role would be nice.

[Zxul]

Give each proper DPS speccs and tactics but make the tactics turn off all the healing. Give people more chocie between DPS speccs while limiting their roles, like it is done in wow.

No thanks. You do know we are playing ror and not wow for a reason, right?