About skills

[Azarael]

Magus can't be considered a satisfactory class if it's a one-trick DoT pony that has to stack Toughness, not Int, to be effective. That should be an OPTION.

[Bozzax]

Magus can't be considered a satisfactory class if it's a one-trick DoT pony that has to stack Toughness, not Int, to be effective. That should be an OPTION.

Agreed they need love both of them (Nid & Pippu). Was so fun funny when they had the kill 10 of each class tasks in events and all struggled with kill 10 ENGI/MAGUS.

[Telen]

I liked the class levels. While WP/DoK Slayer/Mara was there for the nabs. You could go on the harder classes like the magus if you fancied a challenge. You could tell the better players by how they made these classes perform. SH out damaging sorcs or AM out healing WPs made it easy for the pros to show it. All mmos have some easy classes otherwise new players and those that find it too difficult on harder classes would just quit the game.

It was a pain in the early years but when you could level a class in a week the balance issues weren't that important.

[Azarael]

Jesus Christ.

No, unbalanced classes do not exist so that noobs can have an easy way to compete with people playing balanced classes. That just generates resentment, look at the number of complaints about the class balance in Warhammer and especially BW/Sorc faceroll in the early days. No, underpowered classes, trees, tactics and abilities do not exist so that "pros" can show how much better they are by performing well against opposition they would DESTROY if they were using viable tactics and skills. Those underpowered features will just be IGNORED, and they therefore become a waste of development time. The room for pros to do well with a class should be in the depth of that class.

This shitty "tiered" system you are talking about existed within the mod that I've spent years trying to balance, and would you like to know the result of it? A three-weapon game, out of 54 possible weapons, which was almost entirely dead online because you either used the best option or you didn't get a fair reward for your skill. Nobody wants to play anything unless it's viable - and ALL options should be viable. Anything else is an utter failure of game design.

[Telen]

I agree it pisses people off but for the better players it gives them a challenge.

War most classes were pretty unviable compared to Dok/WP Slayertrain Marapull groups but people still played them. I played dps am a pretty crappy class endgame as was the most glass class with little burst and long rotation. Nice for kiting though. Still managed to regularly get 500k damage in wz and out db alot of good bw and slayers. Would I have kept playing for that long if all classes were like slayers. Probably not. Being the only serious dps am after the few good ones like ring/zylo left was a challenge. I wouldnt have wanted to be one of the hundred huge dps 3 button slayers.

[Azarael]

You can get a challenge by handicapping yourself in other ways, like using weak gear - but then I guess there's no e-peen to go with it. There is no need to underpower classes that the majority of players actually want to play seriously.

[Bozzax]

I liked the class levels. While WP/DoK Slayer/Mara was there for the nabs. You could go on the harder classes like the magus if you fancied a challenge. You could tell the better players by how they made these classes perform. SH out damaging sorcs or AM out healing WPs made it easy for the pros to show it. All mmos have some easy classes otherwise new players and those that find it too difficult on harder classes would just quit the game.

It was a pain in the early years but when you could level a class in a week the balance issues weren't that important.

Get it but when some poor randoms pick a "weaker" class without knowing their relative strength they ended up being disappointed. Only if these "weaker" classes were unlocked by you having a RR100 toon it would make sense.

[Zxul]

I agree it pisses people off but for the better players it gives them a challenge.

War most classes were pretty unviable compared to Dok/WP Slayertrain Marapull groups but people still played them. I played dps am a pretty crappy class endgame as was the most glass class with little burst and long rotation. Nice for kiting though. Still managed to regularly get 500k damage in wz and out db alot of good bw and slayers. Would I have kept playing for that long if all classes were like slayers. Probably not. Being the only serious dps am after the few good ones like ring/zylo left was a challenge. I wouldnt have wanted to be one of the hundred huge dps 3 button slayers.

As somebody who played a very untraditional classes- my t4 were tank magus (to whom I rerolled from sorc), dps zealot, dps bg with shield, ranged dps dok.

I didn't played them to have a challenge (though I do like unusual setups). I played them, because with the unusual setups they were very good at what I intended them for, which is solo roaming, with each also providing additional bonuses (like zealot having better AoE then sorc).

[Tesq]

nahh if any want a challenge that's consisnt in make his classe better than others, or play in a style anyone dont, unbalance it's just unbalance.
Even if there is a balance amogst realm in this unbalance, where unbalance fight vs unbalance, it should be put an end to this, more fair classes mean more differents combination for playstile, and more liberty for player.