Scenario changes

[peterthepan3]

Anyone who says that capping Isha doesn't take in excess of 6+ minutes to win (simply through points alone, and no PvP) has never queued Isha =P

I did not say Lost Temple doesn't take more than six minutes to win via points alone, I said winning via points alone does not take the full fifteen minutes, an assertion you have substantiated. I agree removing the guards from Lost Temple would be a good idea.

Indeed, it doesn't, but my comment was more a reference to the fact that once a fight is done in the 6v6 sc, the objective should tick considerably quicker (just my personal belief). 9 times out of 10, you are stuck on the flag after winning, hopping around every minute lest you get quitter/afk DC. Waiting for 6 minutes - when the fight is (technically) over - gets boring real quick

[Martok]

As said, scenario is suppose to be PVP content. Sitting on flag to click it every 40 seconds is endgame pvp?

Not every SC is going to follow that model. Two or three consecutive High Pass Cemetery scenarios can and/or will be as different as the players comprising the teams.

As you can see, it takes exactly 13 seconds for a snared healer starting in the perfect middle between 2 warcaps to reach spot allowing tank to already knockback enemy team members into guard range...

Look, I am not trying to be snide or disrespectful here but my response is yeah, so? If in Lost Temple your opposition is willing to run from you all the way back to their spawn point to avoid combat then let them. Winning the scenario is the primary reward, and if all you are playing for is bragging rights then again, that is not a scenario mechanic issue.

While suggesting changes - theres should be no flag at all in 6vs6 sc. Team that does 6 kills win the round, both teams get ported back to warcamps and go for round 2. Round 3 only if teams reach 1:1. Then scenario ends. And 2:0 in rounds also ends scenario.

An excellent suggestion, and I agree.

[Martok]

9 times out of 10, you are stuck on the flag after winning, hopping around every minute lest you get quitter/afk DC. Waiting for 6 minutes - when the fight is (technically) over - gets boring real quick.

It certainly can, of course, and speeding up the tick timer would seem an easy fix.

[Stickzy]

Know your enemy. If they want to cheese at guards, take the objective and trash them on the forums. Pretty sure that's the real point of tryhard 6v6 around here.

Very constructive, worthy of a head game master.

Its called humor. From watching your streams, it seems like you got non of that. Take it with a smile, and just enjoy the game.

[Natherul]

wall of text about roles

Issue with this is that we cannot implement this unless you want like 1 sc pop an hour in primetime. There is not enough pop for scs to handle proper enforcing of roles.

And also there is no need for a checkbox, the system knows very well what you are at any given point. (its used for a number of things, contribution in RVR for example)

[Luuca]

Curt, and dismissive post about how it's impossible.

If the system already knows "what I am" then why not simply make the rule 1 of each role minimum? 1 of each in an SC would be better than 8 or 9 pops a night and 8 or 9 tokens.

If players knew the group comps would be more optimal, they may join SCs more often. It may, as you said, lead to longer wait times, but better to wait than to lose over and over and over again.

[Natherul]

Curt, and dismissive post about how it's impossible.

If the system already knows "what I am" then why not simply make the rule 1 of each role minimum? 1 of each in an SC would be better than 8 or 9 pops a night and 8 or 9 tokens.

If players knew the group comps would be more optimal, they may join SCs more often. It may, as you said, lead to longer wait times, but better to wait than to lose over and over and over again.

I dont see this changing, especially as it would doom NA pop. Also sorry if you thought my previous post was rude, but that is the truth. See would you rather have no scenario pops or pops with the chance of comps being bad? Because that may be very well what you are suggesting for NA pop as well as for a majority of players.

I know I would def forget about SCs if they popped more rarely then what they do currently when Im on my own. (and yes I think the comps can suck badly at times, but Id rather have that and have something over nothing)

EDIT: Removed some text as Im not sure I remembered something correct or not.(part about it being used in the past)
Also the system already tries to prioritize group comps as much as it can but it wont stop a pop from happening, its just at that time theres none available in the queue that is of the right role/archetype

[Luuca]

Curt, and dismissive post about how it's impossible.

If the system already knows "what I am" then why not simply make the rule 1 of each role minimum? 1 of each in an SC would be better than 8 or 9 pops a night and 8 or 9 tokens.

If players knew the group comps would be more optimal, they may join SCs more often. It may, as you said, lead to longer wait times, but better to wait than to lose over and over and over again.

I dont see this changing, especially as it would doom NA pop. Also sorry if you thought my previous post was rude, but that is the truth. See would you rather have no scenario pops or pops with the chance of comps being bad? Because that may be very well what you are suggesting for NA pop as well as for a majority of players.

I know I would def forget about SCs if they popped more rarely then what they do currently when Im on my own. (and yes I think the comps can suck badly at times, but Id rather have that and have something over nothing)

EDIT: Removed some text as Im not sure I remembered something correct or not.(part about it being used in the past)
Also the system already tries to prioritize group comps as much as it can but it wont stop a pop from happening, its just at that time theres none available in the queue that is of the right role/archetype

Thank you for the explanation and no worries, just being sarcastic with the jabs in the quoted like you were. All good. Just need a few hundred NA players more each night.

[Darosh]

Spoiler:

Just need a few hundred NA players more each night.

I'd argue that even with a more strict archetype control in the machmaking and a population to be funnel'd into it, you'd still face the very same, giant issue: player mentality ~ even in scenarios in which every archetype is successfully been covered for, most players simply strictly refuse to fix parties (or organize/work with the cards they've been dealt via communication; e.g.: pure dps stack, no heal, no tank = assist, at the very **** least).

There is little point in enforcing anything but the very minimum, if players are left with the possibility to mindlessly (i.e.: entirely brainafk) stack tanks/healers/dps in one party or another... to strictly refuse to assist, heal, guard or deploy some basic trigger discipline in regards to CC and AoE, play the objective or muster the very minimum of purposeful communication.
A 'perfect' matchmaking system would still - ultimately - be a cosmetic change, take the player's reluctance to work around the current matchmaking 'issues' by forming groups as evidence for it ~ i.e.: you can't fix (pug) SCs with - at best - superficial means.

Spoiler:

In german there is an idiom that's implications should be considered... "In der Not frisst der Teufel Fliegen" (if you were to google it, mind you "beggars can't be choosers" can't really be considered equivalent for that it does not touch on the 'will' of dealing with a given situation with the means at hand or the necessity of the latter).
If players make no attempt of solving the issue (in spite of having all the means to solve it and yet regardless of whether or not they have access to these means), no system put in place will ever be able to change that (= help players to tackle the issue/in whatever dimensions you could envision a system possibly helping the situation) or alleviate the troubles as such (unless, of course, the very thing is just made to vanish as a whole - no SCs = no opportunity to showcase just how brainafk one is...).

I'd argue, in that sense, that it'd be far more frustrating to see people refuse to fix groups (as is the case right now 24/7) even if perfect - or atleast reasonable - compositions were made possible by the matchmaking more frequently.

Abbd.:
"It's any port in a storm." > "Beggars can't be choosers.", in terms of equivalency/implication.

Note: In regards to toggle functions... they aren't meant to tell the system what spec you are running, but what you could swap to if need be. A system checking all your gear in the inventory and such would be too extensive and likely hardly work. Hence WoW and other MMOs offering a way to tell the system: 'I am tank, but could in theory swap to heal/dps spec if need be. I have the gear/experience necessary.'.
Additionally... it'd introduce alot of opporunity to exploit the system, imagine a loldps healer/tank toggling 'healer/tank' to get an edge in the matchmaking algorithm screwing everyone over. In WoW PvE etc it kinda works, because you can simply be kicked ~ battlegrounds/arena is mostly fluff pug paradise outside of rated, too. So meh.

^ not relevant to the OP/topic of fixing general scenario layouts/mechanics and such.

[Luuca]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Just need a few hundred NA players more each night.

I'd argue that even with a more strict archetype control in the machmaking and a population to be funnel'd into it, you'd still face the very same, giant issue: player mentality ~ even in scenarios in which every archetype is successfully been covered for, most players simply strictly refuse to fix parties (or organize/work with the cards they've been dealt via communication; e.g.: pure dps stack, no heal, no tank = assist, at the very **** least).

There is little point in enforcing anything but the very minimum, if players are left with the possibility to mindlessly (i.e.: entirely brainafk) stack tanks/healers/dps in one party or another... to strictly refuse to assist, heal, guard or deploy some basic trigger discipline in regards to CC and AoE, play the objective or muster the very minimum of purposeful communication.
A 'perfect' matchmaking system would still - ultimately - be a cosmetic change, take the player's reluctance to work around the current matchmaking 'issues' by forming groups as evidence for it ~ i.e.: you can't fix (pug) SCs with - at best - superficial means.

Spoiler:

In german there is an idiom that's implications should be considered... "In der Not frisst der Teufel Fliegen" (if you were to google it, mind you "beggars can't be choosers" can't really be considered equivalent for that it does not touch on the 'will' of dealing with a given situation with the means at hand or the necessity of the latter).
If players make no attempt of solving the issue (in spite of having all the means to solve it and yet regardless of whether or not they have access to these means), no system put in place will ever be able to change that (= help players to tackle the issue/in whatever dimensions you could envision a system possibly helping the situation) or alleviate the troubles as such (unless, of course, the very thing is just made to vanish as a whole - no SCs = no opportunity to showcase just how brainafk one is...).

I'd argue, in that sense, that it'd be far more frustrating to see people refuse to fix groups (as is the case right now 24/7) even if perfect - or atleast reasonable - compositions were made possible by the matchmaking more frequently.

Abbd.:
"It's any port in a storm." > "Beggars can't be choosers.", in terms of equivalency/implication.

Note: In regards to toggle functions... they aren't meant to tell the system what spec you are running, but what you could swap to if need be. A system checking all your gear in the inventory and such would be too extensive and likely hardly work. Hence WoW and other MMOs offering a way to tell the system: 'I am tank, but could in theory swap to heal/dps spec if need be. I have the gear/experience necessary.'.

^ not relevant to the OP/topic of fixing general scenario layouts/mechanics and such.

Oh ya, by all means, remove all the guards. that'll fix it. Make flags and points go faster, sure. great thinking.