[Scenario] Rewards suggestion

[Arbich]

While I agree with your points re SC grind vs other areas of the game, I don't think making RvR gear accessible via SC is a good idea: you should be encouraged to explore every part of the game, to some extent, and if you could get all of your gear from one part of the game then people would never bother venturing out of their comfort zones.

Instead of giving Invader to SC, SC should offer something else that would equally incentivise people to partake in them. Just as RvR and SC players 'have' to do PvE, or PvE and SC players 'have' to do RvR, the same should also be true (to some extent) for PvE and RvR players 'having' to do SC; in this way, you encourage people to take part in every area of the game.

Exploring every part of the game to some extend means 15+ full dungeon runs, 30+ forts and 750+ scenarios for every toon (+1 Dungeon run every week)? Yes, you may not need every set on every toon, but for me the required grind in this game gets out of hand. I would prefer an unified currency to buy all stuff. The incentive to play different parts of the game would be, that you will get your equipment faster that was in comparison to the then unified currency. This is a game after all, it should not be about daily chores.

[Ekundu01]

I play mostly NA time so this is based on that time frame.
SCs are very slow for NA times. I know others have said during EU play time the SC wait time is much less so it might not take as long to get the SC gear during those times.

NA probably has a good solid maybe 3 hours a night of SCs where wait time is probably 5mins between pops maybe a little less but average is about 5mins. From what i have seen wait times start to get longer around 8-9pm est.

It takes about 2000 oppressor medals to get the full set. If average wait time for NA is 5mins between matches and your average match takes 10mins, and say you average 5 medals a match it will take you 400 wins to get the full set. 400 wins with the wait time and play time will take you 100 hours of actual in-game playing to get the full set. With only 3 hours of solid pops a night it will take you 33 days at 3 hours each day of nothing but SCs to get the set. Add in the weapon at another 1500 medals is another 75 hours of wins. Bringing the total for armor and weapon up to 58 days at 3 hours a night of wins.

If you do the exteme of losing every match only getting 1 medal a match ( i know this is highly unlikely) it will take you 500 hours to get the set using same time zone that equals 166 days to get it so a little under half a year but that is only if you are playing 7 days a week at 3 hours a day.

I think this is why we see both sides of the spectrum for complaints for SC gear and others that say it is fine. Since there is no oppressor drops in SCs it is easy to see why most spend time in the lakes especially during NA times when SC pops are slow. You could spend 30-60mins playing SCs and get maybe 20 or so medals or you could go rvr and flip a zone and possibly get a gold bag with a piece of vanq in it. Even if you aren't flipping zones you are still probably going to come out with more vanq medals from kills then you would have got in the same time in SCs. So for the people who actually need the gear they are going to take the quicker option. Even getting a full set of invader takes less actual in-game play time.

Not sure why SCs have to be different then RVR or PVE. In both RVR and PVE you have a chance to get a loot drop reducing your time to get a full set if you get lucky, yet SCs it is all medals and no drops after dom boots and gloves.

[Alfa1986]

I play mostly NA time so this is based on that time frame.
SCs are very slow for NA times. I know others have said during EU play time the SC wait time is much less so it might not take as long to get the SC gear during those times.

SCs are dead and for EU time. last week one of the days there was no one SC for 3 hours playing. now that it makes no sense to wait and to queue, but first rather join pug / guild warband and running with zerg.

[Luuca]

The Issue:

SC pops are slow and you either get horrible group comps without synergy losing to well-balanced pre-made or randoms vs randoms even outside the solo que. The era of pretty good groups with decent comps and synergy fighting similar groups is nearly gone. SC play in RoR is weakening day by day because the middle ground pre-set 6-mans are not queuing as much because they can’t participate in SCs while in a warband taking zones and pushing forts.

The Solution:

The solution to increasing the number of players in SCs and in ORvR is to allow parties within a warband to que for scenarios as a 6-man.

Explanation:

A warband is simply a container for what should be 4 self-sufficient 6-mans all following a central lead and applying pressure or defense as needed. What mainly happens in ORvR now is PuG Warbands with no group comp and no class synergy. Players within the PuG 6-man party within the warband are wandering off, not fulfilling their role, and not working together as a self-sufficient group. Players that are organized into good groups within a warband are able to que SCs while in the warband. If we allowed 6 mans within a warband to que for SCs while in a warband, this would encourage organized small guild and alliances to form alliance warbands with properly balanced 6mans who can still que for SCs while trying to take zones and push fort etc. The warbands will be better stacked, more competitive, and should net better ORvR fights and outcomes. Without being able to que SCs as a 6 man within a warband, many smaller guilds and even alliances will often have 4 independent groups running in an ORvR lake, not coordinated, and simply looking for kills while waiting for SC pops. This may all end if organized 6 mans were allowed to que SCs in a warband.

As I understand it, the argument against allowing 6 mans to que as a party while in a Warband was that it would cause players to leave ORvR at “critical times” and lessen the ORvR experience. I disagree for the following reasons. First, any organized 6 man, when faced with the choice of hot and heavy ORvR action will skip the SC in order to stay in ORvR for a huge fight or defense. Yes, the SC players that joined the SC may get screwed somewhat, but that’s what the SC balancer is there for. If imbalanced, the SC will end early with nearly no ill effects for the game on the whole. The 6 man that declined the SC will be punished with Quitter debuff, so it must have been worth it for them to stay in ORVR. Secondly and conversely, if ORvR is slow and really the only thing going on is Blob vs Blob box running, the 6 man leaves for an SC and what’s the difference? 24 man say becomes an 18 man. In a slow ORvR environment, what does it really matter? The SC takers respawn at the Warcamp and ride to join the WB again. Not a lot of harm nor foul there.

“Well I run an organized alliance warband and if those people think I’ll stand for them taking SCs during my warband they have another thing coming!!” – and you’re right. If you run an organized warband, it’s your call. Either Kick the group queuing or allow it to happen. Warband leader has the option. There will be P L E N T Y of Alliance Warbands who will allow and accept the fact that Party 3 will be in Mourkain Temple for another 10 minutes as well as most who will not allow parties to leave at inopportune times. PuG warbands are simply that, a mix-match of randoms wandering the map loosely following someone trying to ride a horse and use the chat channels. I doubt that the 1 DPS AMs, 2 DPS IB and the two KotBS in party 4 will want to que as a group, but if they do, it’s still at the WB Leader’s discretion to kick them or not.

If the Dev team would allow pre-set parties to join a warband as a full party and que the SCs while in the warband as a full party, the game in SCs and also in ORvR would improve. It was available on Live and there were no issues within our alliance forming warbands knowing that groups would be coming and going for SCs. The understanding was there as it would be in RoR if allowed today.

[adamthelc]

I dont have a problem with scenario sets or wanting each part of the game to have value.

I kind of have an issue with scenarios and RvR being made to be so separate and having barriers. I dont remember them feeling so separate when the game was live, we just always kind of did both all the time. I think the current system is more likely to make people avoid scenarios than entice them to do them.

I could be wrong, but that's what it seems like to me. I wont go into more detail because I have in other threads.

[Alfa1986]

I'm afraid that all this will not fix the situation. if you allow people to queue then when they joined a warband, then leaders of the pug warbands begin to whine about the fact that their people at the time when it is necessary to protect the bos / keep are absent and doing the scenario. it may be worthwhile to reduce the number of players needed to start the scenarios (for the maps that requires 12 * 12, make 6 * 6), as well as to cancel the possibility of refusing to join.

Of course the rewards are full sh*t, especially considering how hard it is to earn them, but still I don’t think people doing scenarios for earning the rewards. It's just nice to see yourself in the columns of kill blow and DPS, especially if you are on the top)), also getting renown on SCs not too bad (3-5-8 k renown for 5-10 min if u win so cool).

[Lokiusus]

The whole thought process behind "keeping scenario rewards low so people are forced to play this part of the game" is really strange to me. Just thinking about basic cost-benefit economics, if you just increase the rewards a bit (or decrease the cost of gear) so people felt it was worth their time to queue, from I think you'd see SCs much more equally popular with RvR than they are now. The old "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar" proverb seems applicable here.

That said - I'm glad Ekundu brought math into this, because I think he hit the nail on the head here.

[Jastojan]

The whole thought process behind "keeping scenario rewards low so people are forced to play this part of the game" is really strange to me. Just thinking about basic cost-benefit economics, if you just increase the rewards a bit (or decrease the cost of gear) so people felt it was worth their time to queue, from I think you'd see SCs much more equally popular with RvR than they are now.

That said - I'm glad Ekundu brought math into this, because I think he hit the nail on the head here.

That said - I'm glad Ekundu brought math into this, because I think he hit the nail on the head here. ------- THIS -------
Can´t agree more.

[Ekundu01]

The whole thought process behind "keeping scenario rewards low so people are forced to play this part of the game" is really strange to me. Just thinking about basic cost-benefit economics, if you just increase the rewards a bit (or decrease the cost of gear) so people felt it was worth their time to queue, from I think you'd see SCs much more equally popular with RvR than they are now.

That said - I'm glad Ekundu brought math into this, because I think he hit the nail on the head here.

My math is rough math but gives a general idea of the amount of time it takes to get the set and weapon. The weapon could be even longer if you don't even have the RR45 weapon before you get to the RR to start getting oppressor medals since you will now have to convert those medals down to get the medals needed for RR45 weapon or only depend on the sc quests.

It could take less or more time depending on how you play and if you are premade pug stomping or duoing or playing only the pug SC as a solo. But even best case you still need to invest a whole lot more time for SCs to get gear that is not even top tier anymore and with city gear in the future it will only make SCs more dead unless they plan to add another SC set but if that is even more of a grind it will not change the SC population as players will just go to the city or pve for gear.

Back when this game was live everything was a grind to keep you playing longer because you payed a monthly sub, this was how all the MMOs of the day were built you can see it in the quest lines in this game where they have you running all over the damn place and back to the quest giver. Look at delf t4 epic weapon quest line on destro side, you spend more time running back and forth vs actually doing the objective of the quest.

Pve was even improved on to have quests so if you get unlucky you will eventually get your gear for putting your time in. Yet SCs still remain 100+ hours of time invested to get something that will be subpar. If SC gear was the best you could get i could understand the time to get it taking a while but we already have invader and Bloodlord that is higher rank gear and vanq the rvr equivalent to oppressor that only requires you to follow the action in the lakes.

I think Pve and Rvr gear time to get is at a fairly good spot but SCs just miss the mark. I think a lot of players see that and don't bother with it and this only makes the grind for SC gear even worse for the players who actually want it.

[wargrimnir]

These conclusions are pretty much the rates working as intended. Scenarios are a grind. You do the same exact same thing over and over in relatively sterile environments with balanced teams.

Nothing new to see in this thread, answers have been given many times in the past. Locking.