Tone Down AMs

[Aluviya]

This is unavailable to shaman as the same abilities are spread over 2 trees and maxing 2 trees is imposssible. The AM
M1 might be justified if the AM is a healer but on an S tier ranged dps its frankly OP. ... it applies a dot and reduces targets chance to crit and damage by 5% - not bad for 1 button push. There are far too many classes in the game wearing the shiny "I Win" button and AM has the shiniest. That is all - high time to Tone Down AMs

Meanwhile, I feel like every week I log into the forums, and there's yet another topic opened either about Shamans or AMs, or both. These discussions are often based on the most limited perspectives possible. Don't get me wrong; I see your point of view. But it's very limited, and I hate to say it out loud. Here are some thoughts:

• There are classes such as Slayer or Range-SH that can remove that Morale Shield with a basic ability (imagine that).

• Both DPS AM and Shaman are very limited DPS-wise. Regardless of how "OP" they might seem in in 1 vs. 1. In group gameplay, you won't ever kill a well-guarded DPS - and any well guarded DPS will kill these classes as they are very squishy. Hence, no one would consider building a small-scale scenario group around these classes.

• This crusade against certain classes from the 1 vs. 1 perspective being OP seems never-ending, while surprisingly, no one complains about truly broken classes like SH, or classes that really require attention because they have lost a big portion of what they used to be, like Magus currently. And I almost fear these topics are taking away the focus to classes that should remain mostly untouched while putting those classes that really require attention into the waitinglist.

However, on one point, I do agree. I think DPS specs of healers need to be strictly DPS. This means either taking away their ability to heal or making healing and lifetapping cost significantly more resources to make it less viable.

[akisnaakkeli]

This is unavailable to shaman as the same abilities are spread over 2 trees and maxing 2 trees is imposssible. The AM
M1 might be justified if the AM is a healer but on an S tier ranged dps its frankly OP. ... it applies a dot and reduces targets chance to crit and damage by 5% - not bad for 1 button push. There are far too many classes in the game wearing the shiny "I Win" button and AM has the shiniest. That is all - high time to Tone Down AMs

Meanwhile, I feel like every week I log into the forums, and there's yet another topic opened either about Shamans or AMs, or both. These discussions are often based on the most limited perspectives possible. Don't get me wrong; I see your point of view. But it's very limited, and I hate to say it out loud. Here are some thoughts:

• There are classes such as Slayer or Range-SH that can remove that Morale Shield with a basic ability (imagine that).

• Both DPS AM and Shaman are very limited DPS-wise. Regardless of how "OP" they might seem in in 1 vs. 1. In group gameplay, you won't ever kill a well-guarded DPS - and any well guarded DPS will kill these classes as they are very squishy. Hence, no one would consider building a small-scale scenario group around these classes.

• This crusade against certain classes from the 1 vs. 1 perspective being OP seems never-ending, while surprisingly, no one complains about truly broken classes like SH, or classes that really require attention because they have lost a big portion of what they used to be, like Magus currently. And I almost fear these topics are taking away the focus to classes that should remain mostly untouched while putting those classes that really require attention into the waitinglist.

However, on one point, I do agree. I think DPS specs of healers need to be strictly DPS. This means either taking away their ability to heal or making healing and lifetapping cost significantly more resources to make it less viable.

This Idea that Lifetappers/Melee Healers shouldnt have any heals at all.... When original goal was that there is as little of "Stand back and just heal" as there can be. Dok/Wp didnt have any resourse regen mechanic in chalices beginning because THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO MELEE HEAL. People cry and cry, then actual backline wp/dok doesnt only exist, it was MUST HAVE in every grp because fast grp heal and grp cleanse.

On that point, you are basically saying that remove shield from wp/dok and return the old and working 2h/dualwield 80% Of true dps and 20% Of true healer. Also Wp/Dok have Shatter Enchantment, and 2 of the 3 melee dps dont even get shatter/Purge. Sl/Cho/Wl/Mara dont get this skill and this skill on Melee Wp/Dok makes perfect sense if you actually know what this game can be not what ROR is atm...

[Aluviya]

I am not sure if I can follow you @akisnaakkeli. Can you rephrase? . Slayer can get universal shatter in mid tree btw. - even though it's not popular as it is 2-Handed Spec. And Shatter Enchmantment - well you are about to open a big discussion here why actually healer AM/Shaman are in somewhat bad state because shatter enchantment is available to many classes in the game - Enchantments are what HoT's from AM/Shaman are and most dps buffs are also enchantments. In certain comps with or without ability CD-Reduction it makes both classes quite hard to heal with as HoT's are removed the moment you apply them.

[akisnaakkeli]

I am not sure if I can follow you @akisnaakkeli. Can you rephrase? . Slayer can get universal shatter in mid tree btw. - even though it's not popular as it is 2-Handed Spec. And Shatter Enchmantment - well you are about to open a big discussion here why actually healer AM/Shaman are in somewhat bad state because shatter enchantment is available to many classes in the game - Enchantments are what HoT's from AM/Shaman are and most dps buffs are also enchantments. In certain comps with or without ability CD-Reduction it makes both classes quite hard to heal with as HoT's are removed the moment you apply them.

Yes slayer has 2h skill available to him as 13pts ability that breaks 1 absorb, 1 enchantment and 1 blessing. But Core classes that gets Shatter enchantment or Sever Blessing are WH/WE + Dps Dok/Wp. All tanks get ofc but rest of melee dps dont. Shatter/Sever were undefendable on Live and first Come is last purged. Like If Rp/Zealot used Self-Res skill on himself FIRST and this is the last buff that will be shattered! Then rest of the grp comes in and things like Sorc/bw grp buffs which will break second last to the self ress. You could protect the buffs and blorc/sm stat steal was amazing cover for buffs because they were removed one by one which made it very very hard to actually shatter that self ress buff. You dont even need any of these shatters or clever gameplay anymore because SO MUCH OF IT IS REMOVED or just nerfed to oblivion.

Nowadays because of the 24 ae cap and much more like Guard Mechanic chagned that undefendables are undefendables for guard dmg as well lol. So RvR battles are over so quick because tanks and heal are designed to heal 6people and take tanks soak up the dmg because 9 ae cap means there are 8 dps in 1 wb and it takes 3 to hit 24 people. Now those 8 can hit 190 people in theory which is like 8 warbands : D When cap was 9 and tanks could actually manage the aoe dmg with heals, kiting with warband was actually possible, not like now i mean truely kiting and playing because Clever Design! This 24 cap means JUST STACKING DPS ALWAYS WINS OVER HEALS AND TANKS

This is already so much offtopic but the Original Idea what made dps wp/dok and melee healer wp/dok was just 1 tactic : D Dps dok/wp went with guilty soul and aoe HD tactic. If you were Melee Healer you used 25% Increased melee healing tactic. That was the difference between dps spec and melee heal spec. 1 Tactic, no shields etc stupied bs. Shield for anyone else except tanks breaks the Holy Trinity. Same is true for giving WH/WE Charge which ignores GCD and is 2s stealth as well...

Remove the shields from dok/wp and remove the speed buff from wh/we. These things are much more important imo than people understand, but much more important is 24cap and 035s slower gameplay leading to 6 skills in 10seconds vs 8-9skills in 10sec like Live and ROR most of its existence.

[Sever1n]

I think problem is with general lack of sustaine of other classes. Only viable solution in ror is go regen or get a pockethealer.
Tnx to detaunt+25autodetaunt+autorunaway sham cant be bursted down, kite you forewer and just burn you down while poping 2 hots+heal on the move, drains, knockback, healing weapon procks. On top is morale that punish you for chasing sham. In total it become most toxic **** ingame in solo to deal with.

AM is more ofencive 4 dots, more crit, viable aoe but its kite is far worse for solo or smallscale, no second hot, no auto detaunt, no run avay, and its order side wich means you deal with acurced celerity, pulls, skuigs with insane mobility, WE with jump+snare.

Shams are easymode, sham+squigh in todays reality is best combo for duo and ton of them in game pising solo players coz basically have everything to counter and kill anything. And they abuse people who dont group up and can be kited easily.

That why i would insta trade kits with shams on my am, even in heal spec.

Gobbos racial tactics is complete OP trash that should be reworked or deleted long time ago. Just way too strong. So the posts will be 24/7 created and people will be complaining till it happens just because nothing change for years. Only endless cycle of blame and gobbo bias denials like this topic. Hope devs finally stop nerfing slays snd finally give gobs abusers what they deserve.

[Tisaya]

The two threads should be merged, as both classes are busted and effectively killing the small scale, limiting the options to 'can you kill a dps sham/am? What about a duo of shamans/am's? No? Go duck yourself''

Though I do think that Shaman is _somewhat_ a bigger menace due to runspeed/autodetaunt. AM is way easier to catch. Still, they should be discussed in the same context of something being inherently unhealthy to the game.

[Sever1n]

Sadly smallscale in this game is badly balanced. To achieve that you need balance defencive/ofencive capabilities of classes in 1vs1. Like mage should always have option to use rigth moves and buttons and burst down heals. In ror heal just detaunt put dot and outsustaine in 100% cases. Same story with regen builds, they just faceroll people who dont have sustaine. Would be great to adding to ther classes actual panic buttons that allow them to regenerate HP in some maner. Theres some tactics and morales for it but they usually work bad on some classes or they cant afford them. The problem is bigger than just am/sham and to fix it devs need hard rework a ton of stuff. Based on how they fix lions pets..... embrase meta or suffer. If u find heal for party shams and am become near nonexistant, cos they isnta turn into sorks without critdmg with half of dmg negated by hots. Untill all soloers will get option to heal themselves, even dps zealot will be menace.

[salazarn]

Shaman are definately more of a problem. Am has another dot and aoe and an absorb shield. But its not their aoe or damage that is the problem with these two classes its the soulsucking durability of them.

Playing against shaman is just so toxic and unfun 80% of the time i honestly just avoid them. Theres no point.

Here's the thing though. AM are still probably op with the tools, detaunts, lifetapping etc they have in roam. I would happily have them looked at. Its just your comparing apples and bowling balls.