Proposal to remove all barriers from scenarios

[Everdin]

While i'm not supporting the barriers, the amount of "just play the scenario" bullshit bothers me.

You all never played in or against a good kite group:

- retreat from WC to make objectibe -> they follow you and snipe you out one after another
- trying to engange them after they come out -> they kite back to wc
- keep them busy while 1 or 2 doing objectives -> they kill you from guards

The only valid option here is keeping them busy with running back and forth between warcamp and objective while a few do the tasks -> boring af cause the majority of sc will just run back and forth. Only healers will have something to do.

[RuffRyder]

Sorry if this has been addressed already, I didn’t read all prior posts, but why not just add PvP flags like in RvR so no ranged class can attack/heal from inside spawn areas, and teams when stepping out get a grace period before flagging so they can attack as a group.

I also agree that it’s mostly an argument for PuG scenarios, Ranked doesn’t need guards and barriers at all imho.

[Garamore]

I think it just comes down to a few people who can’t adapt to a range meta and just want to farm people using a melee train and get sad when they can’t do it so have campaigned for barriers that make it unfun for pugs to play the game

[Morradin]

Not to forget, that you can not disengage from that. If you send out people to "play the objective" they will overwhelm you and gain the momentum. Range premades can not be allowed to hide in spawns.

So here is an idea. If your melee train premade runs into a ranged group, and you don't want to deal with it ... Sit in spawn and surrender. Scenario over and you can go on and q for another.
It's ok, I can hear you reply already. But here's the thing.

If it is OK for you to put players into sitting in their spawn and surrendering, why is it not ok for you to sit in spawn and surrender? Because you play in a dedicated/guild premade? No excuse. You are not special. You should not be allowed to feed on players coming through the barrier so they do not get quitter debuff.

Why is it ok for dedicated 6 man and guild melee trains to slaughter pugs or 6 man groups of randoms, and not ok for ranged groups to slaughter you?

EDIT: Ranged is just another meta. Learn to deal with it!!!!! Do not penalize the majority of players instead to satisfy egos.

[Everdin]

Not to forget, that you can not disengage from that. If you send out people to "play the objective" they will overwhelm you and gain the momentum. Range premades can not be allowed to hide in spawns.

So here is an idea. If your melee train premade runs into a ranged group, and you don't want to deal with it ... Sit in spawn and surrender. Scenario over and you can go on and q for another.
It's ok, I can hear you reply already. But here's the thing.

If it is OK for you to put players into sitting in their spawn and surrendering, why is it not ok for you to sit in spawn and surrender? Because you play in a dedicated/guild premade? No excuse. You are not special. You should not be allowed to feed on players coming through the barrier so they do not get quitter debuff.

Why is it ok for dedicated 6 man and guild melee trains to slaughter pugs or 6 man groups of randoms, and not ok for ranged groups to slaughter you?

EDIT: Ranged is just another meta. Learn to deal with it!!!!! Do not penalize the majority of players instead to satisfy egos.

Melee groups farming on demand at a barrier = evil
Range groups farming on demand inside warcamp = just better

Is that your statement?

There are plenty of arguments against barriers, but this is pure bullshit

[Rydiak]

Not to forget, that you can not disengage from that. If you send out people to "play the objective" they will overwhelm you and gain the momentum. Range premades can not be allowed to hide in spawns.

So here is an idea. If your melee train premade runs into a ranged group, and you don't want to deal with it ... Sit in spawn and surrender. Scenario over and you can go on and q for another.
It's ok, I can hear you reply already. But here's the thing.

If it is OK for you to put players into sitting in their spawn and surrendering, why is it not ok for you to sit in spawn and surrender? Because you play in a dedicated/guild premade? No excuse. You are not special. You should not be allowed to feed on players coming through the barrier so they do not get quitter debuff.

Why is it ok for dedicated 6 man and guild melee trains to slaughter pugs or 6 man groups of randoms, and not ok for ranged groups to slaughter you?

EDIT: Ranged is just another meta. Learn to deal with it!!!!! Do not penalize the majority of players instead to satisfy egos.

Melee groups farming on demand at a barrier = evil
Range groups farming on demand inside warcamp = just better

Is that your statement?

There are plenty of arguments against barriers, but this is pure bullshit

Is it "bullshit" to recommend to players that if they don't like getting attacked by ranged DPS attacking from within their spawn/warcamp that they should not be camping the enemy spawn/warcamp?

[Morradin]

Melee groups farming on demand at a barrier = evil
Range groups farming on demand inside warcamp = just better

Is that your statement?

There are plenty of arguments against barriers, but this is pure bullshit

So DON'T spawn camp! What is hard to understand? You are asking that players be penalized because YOU and you dedicated or guild premade, can not deal with ranged players. If the ranged players follow, use the terrain to your advantage till you close into melee range. If you do not want to think, go sit in your spawn, surrender, and take the loss. I do not care about your success. I care about the success of the ENTIRE community. Not just guild melee train 6 man groups.

EDIT: Barriers and no guards only benefits a few. BUT it is bad for the majority of players in the game. What do you choose? Your melee train slaughtering one or two players at a time that have to come out of the barrier or get quitter debuff. Or what is good for entire community?

[calipso]

Spoiler:

Not to forget, that you can not disengage from that. If you send out people to "play the objective" they will overwhelm you and gain the momentum. Range premades can not be allowed to hide in spawns.

So here is an idea. If your melee train premade runs into a ranged group, and you don't want to deal with it ... Sit in spawn and surrender. Scenario over and you can go on and q for another.
It's ok, I can hear you reply already. But here's the thing.

If it is OK for you to put players into sitting in their spawn and surrendering, why is it not ok for you to sit in spawn and surrender? Because you play in a dedicated/guild premade? No excuse. You are not special. You should not be allowed to feed on players coming through the barrier so they do not get quitter debuff.

Why is it ok for dedicated 6 man and guild melee trains to slaughter pugs or 6 man groups of randoms, and not ok for ranged groups to slaughter you?

EDIT: Ranged is just another meta. Learn to deal with it!!!!! Do not penalize the majority of players instead to satisfy egos.

One thing is a match making issue. The other is a design issue. I have stated this before. Do not try to fix a match making issue with design changes. Fix the match making issue by fixing match making.

Don't you understand this? Spawn camping against ranged premades is not a matter of choice. That is how strong ranged in this game is when its played right. The only counter play there is, is push them away from their save space.

Honestly I don't see how discussing this any further will help the matter. You just want to have your opinion and everyone has to share it.

While i agree that there is a big problem with matchmaking, scenarios were meant to be mini maps based on Objectives, not a slaughter fiesta (we have Ranked for dead matches). Changing a concept only because people aren’t able to kill certain archetypes is wrong. The issue perhaps is balance abilities, not the game mode itself.
Spawn areas have always been a safety spot, back on live and for a period of time in RoR, where you had guards to keep it that way. But they were placed backwards and became useless figurines. That was the first mistake Devs made.
Objectives are ignored nowadays since the tendency is doing a meat grinder ending by a surrender, as the data thread showed us, thanks to barriers. Keep feeding or get a quitter is not a solution either.
Definition of “Scenarios” should be changed by now, it has lost all of its identity.
Let’s do another type of scenario, something like “classic scs”, without barriers and guards where they used to be, and check how populated it will be. Im going all in, i bet would be more popular than the current one.

[Garamore]

Thats a good idea - do barrier serps pass and non barrier serps pass and let the people choose!

[arturziomas]

+1 from me to OP, I'd add though that it would be best to make guards ranged and make sure they have 100% defences pass through, and that people killed by them provide 100% rewards.