[PTS] Feedback on stats/formula/renown changes

[BluIzLucky]

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What's the Opportunity crit stat tied to?
If it's Critical Hit, then according to my testing on previous versions that would also increase Heal Crit chance.


My hybrid AM used to run minimum 29% heal crit and 40-50% magic crit.

Melee Crit. And yes Critical Hit like Onslaught We/Wh/Bw/Sorc crit proc increases all crit. That is why 5% Melee crit Lini will stack with the 9% Crit from onslaught proc. Sorc/Bw get this general crit so they have 35% Heal crit with full mechanic, and Absorb Vitality used to crit heal in Aor. It's sorc dot that heals dmg done + the heal portion could crit.

This is why when Lotd talismans in Aor were very Op you could see 15% all crit talisman + 8% heal/melee/magic/ranged crit talisman giving you 23% Crit in 1 2h=)

Yes, but as per latest patch all attack crits combined into "Opportunitist" and I don't have access to check what stat the new version gives at the moment.

[akisnaakkeli]

What's the Opportunity crit stat tied to?
If it's Critical Hit, then according to my testing on previous versions that would also increase Heal Crit chance.


My hybrid AM used to run minimum 29% heal crit and 40-50% magic crit.

Melee Crit. And yes Critical Hit like Onslaught We/Wh/Bw/Sorc crit proc increases all crit. That is why 5% Melee crit Lini will stack with the 9% Crit from onslaught proc. Sorc/Bw get this general crit so they have 35% Heal crit with full mechanic, and Absorb Vitality used to crit heal in Aor. It's sorc dot that heals dmg done + the heal portion could crit.

This is why when Lotd talismans in Aor were very Op you could see 15% all crit talisman + 8% heal/melee/magic/ranged crit talisman giving you 23% Crit in 1 2h=)

Yes, but as per latest patch all attack crits combined into "Opportunitist" and I don't have access to check what stat the new version gives at the moment.

Ah, sry. Me neither and i as well want to know. Cant access the launcher that gives access to pts. It did work for me when PTS was for everyone for the first time in RoR last year proably. So if someone has an answer to what Opportunist is tied in Pts feel free to send a tell

[Erolgamer]

it's only offensive crit, heal crit is another thing. just login to the PTS to check, there are two different renown branch to increase offensive crit and healing crit.

[Maltar]

Well, since the class that most would benefit from the mechanic of the healers is RP and Zealot, and they convert the crit values, the thing that makes them balanced is that they have to choose which to have when they use the conversion mechanic, is to just make them able to convert renown point crit stat heal or opportunity by their mechanic.

That leaves AM/shaman to not get "free" heal crit in dps spec, but allows Rp/zealot to stack massive crit at the cost of everything else, but only in the form they toggle to.

Else you would want to just make a single crit stat, and build around it, DOK+WP would also benefit from crit on melee and heal, then build around the new stat. AM/shaman could then be tuned into being much more a hybrid than they currently are, making weaving damage/heal a necessity rather than the joke it currently is.

I always felt that the class mechanic of AM/Shaman was poorly designed. The original design of the classes was around weaving damage and healing for greater and greater effect, but that design was never embraced, as the class mechanic as a whole keeps it back. If instead the class was balanced around having to weave heals between their attacks to reach full potential, it would be much more challenging and fun to play, while giving more ways to counter it.

Make attack/heal strength increase in damage by 5% for as you cast each spell, let them stack to something like 40%, give a duration of 5 seconds as long as you cast an opposite spell every 5 seconds, if you fail to weave once you lose the entire stack going back to 0. If casting on GCD and only using instas(which is not always the best choice, ramp up time would be 12 seconds minimum, or 24 seconds if only ramping up every time they cast both a heal and a dps spell. (gives a few counters, silence, ap drain, knockdown, interrupt to break the AM's potential both as healer and dps) and lets tactics be how you nudge the class to dps or heal being your primary focus. And makes using the big heals and longer cast abilities be much scarier. (set it to 12 seconds, and big slow cast heals become more of a finisher with risk, and searing touch channel at 6 second cast would be a true finisher at the cost of losing your stacks if fully channeled).

This would give the class a completely unique twist in play style(but still very much in accordance to the lifetap mechanics like EoV and FoDG + heal, while also giving counters to the class in smallscale/roaming.

With the AM/Shaman built around a different playstyle, it could allow the full integration of crit into just a single renown point tree for all classes, and leave open spaces for new kinds of renown abilities and stats that currently there is no space for, allowing for many new and interesting designs to be made in the years to come.

[Fenris78]

Issue is you cannot stack as much initiative as for Weapon skill for instance, very few classes can do it to the same amount (probably only WH and WE due to self-buff and high INI base from stuff alone).

Then as a tank or melee dps you realize you now have to maximize THREE stats in order to not be glasscannon, or the previous defensive abominations WE could become for instance where you just dont have ton invest into STR at all and be indestructible, plus inflicting mass damage with WB.
Some other could have done the same, for instance some tanks like Chosen wich can stack parry on top of magical attacks, leaving Weapon Skill on average to focus on purely defensive stats.

I understand the need to decorrelate the whole "defensive + offensive" advantages upon one stat alone, but you cannot just make it binary system, with one stat being purely offensive and the other purely defensive, or it will just shift the issue the other way around ; with proposed system on PTS, you are making Initiative the "Best" stat to build around.

Problem is, inherent repartition of gear stats and class mechanics (including buffs and tactics) dont allow as much freedom on specific stats ; every class and especially physical damaging characters need to focus on their main stat, PLUS another (in this case Weapon Skill) in order to be effective.

With gear not giving Initiative as the main stat, even for most defensive sets on tanks, you are now creating a huge imbalance of how stats are balanced on gear, instantly creating a weak spot on classes needing reasonable levels of Parry (melee and tanks), and buffing for free ranged classes wich, by design, already got access to the needed tools allowing them to NOT have to invest into parry (range, mobility, CC, etc).

In a game where ranged classes are the most powerful, especially after the (unbalanced) current avoidances system (getting dodge and disrupt to max level on anyone other than shielded tank is currently completely useless with Main stat + gear + tactic + skills + consumables strikethrough bonuses), you further exacerbate the imbalance by greatly reducing melee avoidances, and freely giving some to ranged archetypes.


Another option, a middle ground which could have been better to my taste, could have been something like this :
- 100 Strenght/Ballistic giving 5-6% armor penetration + 0.5% Block strikethrough
- 100 Weapon skill giving 3% parry chances + 1% Parry/Dodge/Disrupt Strikethrough
- 100 Initiative giving 5% dodge + 3% reduced ctbc
- 100 Intelligence giving 5% magical resistances ST + 0.5% block ST
- 100 Willpower giving 4% disrupt + 2% heal bonus

This way you will get :

- 2 bonuses on each stat

- Offensive stats giving offensive bonuses

- Initiative getting more value with higher scaling, considering almost every character wont get more than 300 average unless they heavily invest into it

- Dodge and disrupt getting more in line with parry and block values (they were and still are nonexistent outside specific bonuses like Hold the Line), considering average values.

- Disrupt bonus by Willpower being less important to avoid too big gap between healers and other characters disrupt chances

- Offensive stats lowering armor or magic resistance will make more use of various debuffing skills, but they will need to be adjusted of course, because currently they are far more powerful, especially AoE magical debuffs wich completely remove most of magic resistances.

- Now damage dealers will get natural resistance lowering, but they still have to invest into 2 different stats to get Avoidances strikethrough.

- Even Magical damage dealers who can use some weapon skill to get higher strikethrough, making them in line for both factions (Engi/Magus for example).

- Every character will have to make a choice between only getting main stat to higher level, OR invest into some weapon skil to get extra bonuses.

- Weapon skill wont be as mandatory to get high armor penetration (will help for low WS melee classes), but still a very good stat to get higher defense, and a bit of extra offense.


So logical repartition could be like :

mDPS / off tanks : Str + WS
rDPS : Bal + WS
Def Tanks : Init + WS
Magical rDPS : Intel + WS
Healers : Init + WP

Some numbers will be tweaked but it could make a better base than proposed changes, and will probably better respect the inherent Stats repartition and capabilities on most classes.

[Zxul]

Magical rDPS : Intel + WS

Let me show you a very simple problem with that very long post- show me a single caster armor set with a ws mod/ set bonus. Unless you think that ror devs have the manpower needed to go and change every single magical rdps item in the game, that is.

[Fenris78]

Magical rDPS : Intel + WS

Let me show you a very simple problem with that very long post- show me a single caster armor set with a ws mod/ set bonus. Unless you think that ror devs have the manpower needed to go and change every single magical rdps item in the game, that is.

Average disrupt chance is around 20-25% for BiS gear + maxed renown wich is already really low, compared to parry for instance.

You can get around 8% Strikethrough with gear, 6% with Senti talisman, 3% with consumable, 5% with Magus debuff, WP debuff from Sorc... Is hitting 95% of the time not enough for you ?

Strikethrough from Intelligence is absolutely not needed.

Simply lower disrupt buffs from tanks / shields, no need to have tanks with 70% disrupt, but disrupt chances are already very low on non-shield classes.

Weapon skill is available to everyone, to some extend, by :
- Talismans
- Renown
- Consumables
- Class buffs like SM/BO Stat stealing
- Twilight rings

Again, Disrupt and Dodge chances being naturally lower than other stat mean you also wont be mandatory to invest into WeaponSkill.
It will be an option, but overall will get beneficial since it will still be with defensive component.

In the end the only thing to balance out will be dodge/disrupt buffs from tanks. You can lower disrupt buff values if you fear encountering too much avoidances.
20% effective disrupt/dodge should be the norm, unless attacker heavily invest into more strikethrough.
Currently 5% effective disrupt on non-healer class is considered lucky, while parry can be up to 70-80% ; how can you justify so much discrepancy between avoidances, coupled with the fact magical DPS are hitting over zero % magic resistances thanks to their integrated magical debuffs ?

[Panzer80]

Magical rDPS : Intel + WS

Let me show you a very simple problem with that very long post- show me a single caster armor set with a ws mod/ set bonus. Unless you think that ror devs have the manpower needed to go and change every single magical rdps item in the game, that is.

Then use renown and talismans or actually miss once in a while..

[Zxul]

Magical rDPS : Intel + WS

Let me show you a very simple problem with that very long post- show me a single caster armor set with a ws mod/ set bonus. Unless you think that ror devs have the manpower needed to go and change every single magical rdps item in the game, that is.

Then use renown and talismans or actually miss once in a while..

Why not. Assuming it will be a both way street, and tanks/mdps will need to spec intelligence to get striketrough, I fully support this suggestion.

[Fenris78]

Let me show you a very simple problem with that very long post- show me a single caster armor set with a ws mod/ set bonus. Unless you think that ror devs have the manpower needed to go and change every single magical rdps item in the game, that is.

Then use renown and talismans or actually miss once in a while..

Why not. Assuming it will be a both way street, and tanks/mdps will need to spec intelligence to get striketrough, I fully support this suggestion.

So to you, melee having to get in range and hit a 50+% parry opponent is fine, but magic ranged DPS hitting from 100+ ft against 20% resistances and 15 to 20% disrupt is not acceptable?
You got a specific sense of game balancing, indeed.

Remind me how much disrupt you would face in the previous version of the game ?
It was more than now, because you got no free strikethrough from Intelligence. Only one who benefit from this in current version are full willpower healers, for everyone else Disrupt is now non-existent, event with full renown, thanks to this flawed system.

Before Disrupt/dodge were around 15% for most people, on average, with maxed renown. And it was very low, but more than now. I never heard ranged DPS complaining about too much avoidances, especially after Sovereign era.