A Detailed Game Management Methodology - "Saving" the game

[Garamore]

Before a change is proposed can a simple ‘would this be fun for all types of players’ be asked. If the answer is it just favours organised groups then can the change not be introduced. The game needs all types of players from people who spend 12hrs per day in game to those who log in play a few scens and log off. The recent changes heavily favour org groups and limit many play styles.

This game base (I mean the original WAR) has been designed that way, it's in the DNA of old school MMORPGs to favour organisation and communication. Casual players will lose, unbalanced pugs will lose, solo players will lose even more and all of this is normal. It's a tank-dd-healer game, if you don't play in a 2-2-2 it's perfectly normal to fail but people don't want to learn and commit. I say it's not a balance or code problem but a playerbase issue.

You want to save this project? Find people who really love this game and want to play it as it deserves and not as a random Fortnite or other LOL. But, this is an impossible task, game industry changed too heavily and players aren't used to difficulty anymore.

Game always favoured org players. RoR has added a further layer of favouring org players to the point non org players cannot even level their chars. Remove all the anti pug elitest stuff in this version and at least those players have something to do.

It’s been a scorched earth policy wiping out anything a non org player may do (leeching rps on range is probably the last one available). Eventually much like ranked and city only the top end are left and there is no depth to support the game mode and it dies.

[Kaeldrick]

I disagree, they did some things for non org players like Discordant Skirmish... well ok that's only one thing but still

If you're talking about balance changes, then it's pointless : give easy-to-use tools in order to satisfy unorganised people and strong guilds will abuse them. Problem will be the same or even worse.

[BoriqOne]

Before a change is proposed can a simple ‘would this be fun for all types of players’ be asked. If the answer is it just favours organised groups then can the change not be introduced. The game needs all types of players from people who spend 12hrs per day in game to those who log in play a few scens and log off. The recent changes heavily favour org groups and limit many play styles.

This game base (I mean the original WAR) has been designed that way, it's in the DNA of old school MMORPGs to favour organisation and communication. Casual players will lose, unbalanced pugs will lose, solo players will lose even more and all of this is normal. It's a tank-dd-healer game, if you don't play in a 2-2-2 it's perfectly normal to fail but people don't want to learn and commit. I say it's not a balance or code problem but a playerbase issue.

You want to save this project? Find people who really love this game and want to play it as it deserves and not as a random Fortnite or other LOL. But, this is an impossible task, game industry changed too heavily and players aren't used to difficulty anymore.

Game always favoured org players. RoR has added a further layer of favouring org players to the point non org players cannot even level their chars. Remove all the anti pug elitest stuff in this version and at least those players have something to do.

It’s been a scorched earth policy wiping out anything a non org player may do (leeching rps on range is probably the last one available). Eventually much like ranked and city only the top end are left and there is no depth to support the game mode and it dies.

Agreed.

[akisnaakkeli]

If RoR TRUELY favoured Original players we would have All the Iconic builds back and not this blander and more mirrored version of the best PvP Mmorpg. If they happen to be Original Players would surprise me, but i havent been in ror Discord in 5 yrs so im so out of the loop of who is who. Anyone who wants to force anyone to play in any way is usually not a good sign. If RoR favours the peeps who want 50-100 online max and all playing in organized Wbs. Having 500-1000 online while the same 50-100 can be in Their Ultra Sniper Elite Wb's would be preferrable to most probably. They would have more to kill but also more out of their control and that's the worst. People who really avoid dying in this game... If you have 15 kills and 5 deaths and you lost its worth it easily. Always go for the kill or go away imo=)

Ive played War 2008-2013 and Started RoR 2014. Ive played the Alliance vs Alliance game which is the huge numbers that still makes fun fight, not too much on either side. Zergs used to do the campaign and Best guilds would Run and find eachother and fight. Ive played 6-12v6-36 and this was my favourite way to play because the requirements for Getting to Stage II originally was INTENSE. Every instance had to dominate the opponent. I also played duo And Solo and these playmodes were possible in Aor. You can take Bo as Solo/Duo and lock it and delay lock for 10min? I cant even 10-15m

But Aor Rewarded kills always, Guards in Scs is the obvious move and there should be counters to camping. In Aor if you were Spawncamped but managed to get away and get Solo kill it was worth it. It was fun and felt right because i was rewarded not more or less than i would in RvR in 1v1 or 1v2. Many times i actually had most renown in Scs only for solo kills. I dont remember how much kills were 2 or 5 points, but we lose 50-500 and if you got 4 Solo kills you had most renown (6-12k renown)because very little amount of kills because of camping

Aor didnt give Solo que'ers less sc pops. Aor didnt give less renown from kills if you are not in party, in rvr or scs(you probably should be in a party in Sc's) Aor didnt give negative or positive special treatment for playing certain way. More powerful easily accessible items like 4-7% Crit Wpns from Lairs or Bastion. T4 Epic Quest Wpns, Inf Wpns, Keep/Fort And City Purple Bags Gave Wpns with procs. The wpns didnt have Renown Rank Requirement, even the highest dps ones which were 60-67dps) 60dps drops in lost vale or Stage One purple bag. 63 In Stage II 66 In Stage III King instance 5 bosses all have chance to drop Wpns but King Didnt. 67dps or 100dps 2h was Colossus Wpn but they had no Procs or Talisman slots so 60-66dps were usually the Bis Wpns. 66dps were the "Sovereign" Wpns until rr100 patch and rr75 70dps/101.5dps came. We need Easy Access Alot of Power Wpns and procs back https://imgur.com/a/this-is-warhammer-o ... -8-YmzhjoZ

I think we need those up to 70dps 101.5dps or at least what Aor had when rr80 and Sove/Tyrant was max 66-67dps. Best thing about Lotd is the Defending tombs,invading tombs,invading TOVL and Defending TOVL <3 I really miss that kind of true 6v6

[Paxsanarion]

Before a change is proposed can a simple ‘would this be fun for all types of players’ be asked. If the answer is it just favours organised groups then can the change not be introduced. The game needs all types of players from people who spend 12hrs per day in game to those who log in play a few scens and log off. The recent changes heavily favour org groups and limit many play styles.

This game base (I mean the original WAR) has been designed that way, it's in the DNA of old school MMORPGs to favour organisation and communication. Casual players will lose, unbalanced pugs will lose, solo players will lose even more and all of this is normal. It's a tank-dd-healer game, if you don't play in a 2-2-2 it's perfectly normal to fail but people don't want to learn and commit. I say it's not a balance or code problem but a playerbase issue.

You want to save this project? Find people who really love this game and want to play it as it deserves and not as a random Fortnite or other LOL. But, this is an impossible task, game industry changed too heavily and players aren't used to difficulty anymore.

Game always favoured org players. RoR has added a further layer of favouring org players to the point non org players cannot even level their chars. Remove all the anti pug elitest stuff in this version and at least those players have something to do.

It’s been a scorched earth policy wiping out anything a non org player may do (leeching rps on range is probably the last one available). Eventually much like ranked and city only the top end are left and there is no depth to support the game mode and it dies.

Sums it up nicely....unfortunately. I would hope the Balance Team or whoever is in control of this server is passionate about keeping it alive. Or if not, and it is indeed a scorched earth policy intended to remove all players but just the top end scenario e-sport players that they would simply.... state that as policy.... so we can stop wasting time or hoping for a better future for the server.

[Rotgut]

If you're talking about balance changes, then it's pointless : give easy-to-use tools in order to satisfy unorganised people and strong guilds will abuse them. Problem will be the same or even worse.

No it won't be the same or worse. Game needs busted and easy to use spells because they are super satisfying and make the average player feel strong. All you gotta do is give them counters, then the organized players can have their own fun against each other. An org WB will beat an unorganized one regardless of there being busted (read, fun) spells or not.

Think about Old GTDC and Old Rampage.

Old GTDC was worse than Old Rampage (outside of funnels) because there was no counter. If you get to a critical mass of Choppas pulling everybody on contact, there isn't enough time to Taunt all those spinning helicopters. Old Rampage, in an open fight, was extremely telegraphed and good Destro WBs would play around that. It was only in funnels that Old Rampage was the one with no counter-play and that was an issue because it encouraged boring gameplay where Order would only sit in Keeps or in funnels, and Destro knew they couldn't charge that cuz they had nothing to do in those spots.

Instead of nerfing both spells to the ground and removing the fun for the casual player that NEED a way to feel strong by simply pressing a button, they could've worked on a more elegant solution where pugs got to keep their fun, and organized WBs would've been able to counter those spells with organization. It gets trickier when you gotta take into account SCs and 6v6, granted, but "nerfing everything that is fun" isn't the answer and it brought us to where we are today.

[leftayparxoun]

You know what would help "save" the game? Volunteering to help fix some of the problems instead of volunteering to tell them how to do the work. It is difference between engineers and project managers.

While I completely agree with the last statement, I feel like I cannot (for my own well-being) consider taking more responsibilities during gaming time. While being a guild officer loses its meaning if there's no game or guild, I still choose to put that first because it came first.

Maybe I'm a hypocrite in the end, but at least by writting posts and suggestions like this one I feel like I'm doing my moral obligation to the game and the community outside my guild.

[Kaeldrick]

If you're talking about balance changes, then it's pointless : give easy-to-use tools in order to satisfy unorganised people and strong guilds will abuse them. Problem will be the same or even worse.

No it won't be the same or worse. Game needs busted and easy to use spells because they are super satisfying and make the average player feel strong. All you gotta do is give them counters, then the organized players can have their own fun against each other. An org WB will beat an unorganized one regardless of there being busted (read, fun) spells or not.

Think about Old GTDC and Old Rampage.

Old GTDC was worse than Old Rampage (outside of funnels) because there was no counter. If you get to a critical mass of Choppas pulling everybody on contact, there isn't enough time to Taunt all those spinning helicopters. Old Rampage, in an open fight, was extremely telegraphed and good Destro WBs would play around that. It was only in funnels that Old Rampage was the one with no counter-play and that was an issue because it encouraged boring gameplay where Order would only sit in Keeps or in funnels, and Destro knew they couldn't charge that cuz they had nothing to do in those spots.

Instead of nerfing both spells to the ground and removing the fun for the casual player that NEED a way to feel strong by simply pressing a button, they could've worked on a more elegant solution where pugs got to keep their fun, and organized WBs would've been able to counter those spells with organization. It gets trickier when you gotta take into account SCs and 6v6, granted, but "nerfing everything that is fun" isn't the answer and it brought us to where we are today.

I agree with one thing : too many nerfs have been done to the game. Indeed some of them weren't needed but the worst part of the whole thing is that they nerfed both playstyles : the last AoE nerf (24 targets to 9) killed org gameplay and many guilds stopped RoR because of it (ok they want to rollback on this change but it may be too late). Before that, they weakened pugs that's true. So the current situation actually results from a lack of true policy, trying to satisfy everyone will lead to failure, that's been proven many times

Regarding balance and "busted skills", the true issue from my pov is that healers and tanks aren't attractive enough for new players and I am not really conviced that they can become beloved archetypes. As I've said it earlier, game industry killed old school MMOs by lowering down the need of interactions between players in online games so support archetypes are disliked. Sad but true.

For quite a time, healing people around didn't give you any renown... imagine playing for nothing.

[Tisaya]

Ctrl+f 'money' has empty result on the post above.

So, the core of all the problems is a monetisation lack of this game. It must be monetized in some way. Team's work must me compensated in a fair way by money payments.
Money will give resources: time, specialists to solve any of the problems. Ad too.

I guess its forbidden in some way for now by the bl copyright holders. But its not impossible to overcome it.

Plenty of people would want to help this game for free. I'm pretty sure in 10 years we could get an entire new faction just by crowdsourcing 3d models, art and code. If such was the goal. Though weird gameplay decisions, like scenario barriers, have nothing to do with money or resources.

[Fakkel]

Before a change is proposed can a simple ‘would this be fun for all types of players’ be asked. If the answer is it just favours organised groups then can the change not be introduced. The game needs all types of players from people who spend 12hrs per day in game to those who log in play a few scens and log off. The recent changes heavily favour org groups and limit many play styles.

This game base (I mean the original WAR) has been designed that way, it's in the DNA of old school MMORPGs to favour organisation and communication. Casual players will lose, unbalanced pugs will lose, solo players will lose even more and all of this is normal. It's a tank-dd-healer game, if you don't play in a 2-2-2 it's perfectly normal to fail but people don't want to learn and commit. I say it's not a balance or code problem but a playerbase issue.

You want to save this project? Find people who really love this game and want to play it as it deserves and not as a random Fortnite or other LOL. But, this is an impossible task, game industry changed too heavily and players aren't used to difficulty anymore.

And this is how you lose players. Also i dont remember you being a part of the warhammer original team. So Saying that is how it was ment to be is just bs. Even public quest is specificly made so you dont have to group up. Reson there are small points on the pvp map is to break up the big grps. I dont mind WB play. But some nights i dont want to listen to others giving me orders and just want to play around with a few friends or solo. Not to mention WH's and WE's.