Wait, WP melee gets no gap closer? (in a ranged kite meta, lol)

[Gladiolix]

People think that shield / DPS WP is good?

lol

Must be the same folks who think Slayer is fine.

Well, shield/dps WP is good but with a caveat; if shield WP finds low armor/low mitigation enemy to hit, it's healoutput is unparalled. If you get kited or snare+punted away, healoutput is almost zero. Good players can pretty easily shut down shield dok/wp heals.

DPS WP heals are almost non-existent even in melee range because you exhaust yourself out of RF, which is needed in all the healing lifetaps. Damage is completely fine IMO, but you lack mobility. The 2-stage snare is also a bad joke and should be instantly applied with Weight of Guilt in 2H spec, not requiring curse.

My DoK is too low lvl, so my experience is from WP only. And my perspective is smallscale; 3-6 man group.

Also I don't understand the mentality, that if a class has one working spec, it used as an excuse to not make other specs work.

[Nameless]

People think that shield / DPS WP is good?

lol

Must be the same folks who think Slayer is fine.

Obviously you didnt played 6v6 and prolly you wont ever. But at that stage shield wp/doks are borderline op. Yea they dont work at all game modes like i wrote but they do work and work so well that shield wp/dok is kinda mandatory for 6v6 scene

[Rapzel]

The issue with your statement here is that it is competitive, except in 1vs1 against ranged and that it's bad in WB blobbing.
You struggling against rSH and Shaman in a 1vs1 doesn't justify a massive buff.

A melee specialization without a gap closer can never be balanced relative to other melee specializations that do have one, for obvious reasons since it need to be in melee to be effective. It will always be missing a basic important tool which others that perform the role get.

There is nothing else in the toolkit of the dps WP that would justify this specialization not having one, whilst others get it. Hence why in fact WP dps used to have one as well.

Again this point of 1vs1 is irrelevant, having a gap closer is a necessary tool for melee dps in all contexts of the game.

So my 2h DPS tank needs a gap closer to be competitive?
Does my ASW need a selfheal to stay competitive as well?

[Zxul]

2h DPS tank a gap closer

Have to admit, idea of BO with pounce brings some interesting visuals.

[Dackjanielz]

People think that shield / DPS WP is good?

lol

Must be the same folks who think Slayer is fine.

Obviously you didnt played 6v6 and prolly you wont ever. But at that stage shield wp/doks are borderline op. Yea they dont work at all game modes like i wrote but they do work and work so well that shield wp/dok is kinda mandatory for 6v6 scene

Anyone with experience knows how to shut down a shield priest and as someone else pointed out wrath has no healing what so ever.
These builds you gotta work 10x harder for less return.

Salvation priest quite simply is the best in EVERY situation regardless, including 6v6.

[Sulorie]

People think that shield / DPS WP is good?

lol

Must be the same folks who think Slayer is fine.

Obviously you didnt played 6v6 and prolly you wont ever. But at that stage shield wp/doks are borderline op. Yea they dont work at all game modes like i wrote but they do work and work so well that shield wp/dok is kinda mandatory for 6v6 scene

Anyone with experience knows how to shut down a shield priest and as someone else pointed out wrath has no healing what so ever.
These builds you gotta work 10x harder for less return.

Salvation priest quite simply is the best in EVERY situation regardless, including 6v6.

Book healing is trash in high pressure 6vs6 situations.
Shield is way better for PvE healing too.

[Farrul]

So you are telling me that you didn't made this entire thread as trolling, and you are actually serious? Congratulations, each our conversation you break records which I didn't thought you can break.

Also, what are you talking about? My WL thread as alive and currently on the first page.

I created this thread to discuss this topic. As far as trolling/derailing/ is concerned, you are responsible for that entirely alone.

Your WL thread is proof to me that you're out of touch with the reality of the game when it comes to class balance, actually with a suggestion like that i think it is fair to say that you have disqualified yourself from being taken seriously in order- related class balance discussions.

A reminder:
viewtopic.php?t=53885

Nice try, now lets get back to that logic part that you have such a problem with. The "dps/dual wield spec" which you mentioned is only used, as I said, in solo. So is the intended buff "an intended solo buff, it is not", or is it "context of solo, group, wb is not relevant", or you just can't make up your mind how to make a buff to a solo spec to not sounds like a buff to a solo spec?

You may have to check your own logic before pointing fingers at anyone else, i've explained clearly the nature of such a tool, and it is indeed not related to a specific context, a gap closer would be useful in all modes of the game since it is more or less a necessary tool for mdps and specs to have, especially in these times with a heavy focus on rdps that so easily can kite and abuse melee classes.

[Farrul]

The issue with your statement here is that it is competitive, except in 1vs1 against ranged and that it's bad in WB blobbing.
You struggling against rSH and Shaman in a 1vs1 doesn't justify a massive buff.

A melee specialization without a gap closer can never be balanced relative to other melee specializations that do have one, for obvious reasons since it need to be in melee to be effective. It will always be missing a basic important tool which others that perform the role get.

There is nothing else in the toolkit of the dps WP that would justify this specialization not having one, whilst others get it. Hence why in fact WP dps used to have one as well.

Again this point of 1vs1 is irrelevant, having a gap closer is a necessary tool for melee dps in all contexts of the game.

So my 2h DPS tank needs a gap closer to be competitive?
Does my ASW need a selfheal to stay competitive as well?

If you're playing a 2h dps tank you are not being competitive as a tank, self-explanatory

This is not the intention of a tank class and that's why tanks get Heavy armor, defensive tactics/buffs/guards/punts and peeling cc etc . If you so choose to play a ''DPS'' 2H tank you are going to need a gap closer of some sort in order to stay competetive in this mode since your playing field will be small scale and there you'll face rdps kite meta, all tank classes have at least one of these tools(except maybe the 2H black orc, poor fellow).

Why would ASW need a self-heal to stay competetive, i have no idea how you thought this comparison is even relevant to the topic at hand.

[Farrul]

Also I don't understand the mentality, that if a class has one working spec, it used as an excuse to not make other specs work.

Yes this point is spot-on. The ability to distinguish between different specs is crucial , this mentality need to change and all specs deserve to be looked at within their own capabilities and shortcomings when it comes to balancing them.

[Farrul]

Are you talking about the very old charge or 2s snare on Judgement? I think you are talking about judgement and yes i def agree that Book/Shield (Heal specs) shouldnt have snare on Judgement but they did. If RoR is not Willing to revert Back to Divine Strike/Consume Essence using 35Ap and returning 35 Resourses, same with Judg/Fok using 15ap and returning 15 resourses then the minimal thing to do is make Supplication usable on the move only for Dps Wp/Dok not shield or book obviously. Make Supplication 15-20s Cooldown and not converting Ap to RF just giving Rf without loosing Ap. And give Judgement 33% Chance to Snare target with 2H only.

EDIT; I want to clarify that I dont want charge for dps wp/dok, And RoR has added snare/root break for 2h WP and that is MAX imo what Dps Wp/Dok can get from the Melee dps Skills. But I would gladly not have this Snare/root break and Sigmars Wrath if we can get Soulfire/Judgement using ap and returning resourses + Getting melee grp heal back OR change Divine Strike/Consume essence to use 35Ap And give 35 Resourses.

Indeed the old snare they used to have (judgement, not smite).

I can agree with these suggestions since having to stop/cast and refuel a class resource on a spec that need to close the gap and stay mobile isn't very practical at all. Overall i see room for improvements without really breaking any balance, since some of it looks archaic for a melee spec and obviously intended for a caster spec.