Guard ability suggestion

[Panzerkasper]

Guard is absoltely necessary for the balance of the game hence for the simple fact that you can stack damage easier than you can stack defense.

[Alubert]

At first I thought it was such a joke but I see the next entries in the post and I guess he is so serious.
Guard is absolutely the foundation in this game.
If you don't like it then learn to live with it or find another pvp mmo without guard machanics. There are plenty of them out there.

Most of us tried to find our way in other pvp mmo's (WoW, TESO, GW2, DAoC ect) after the original servers closed and why do you think people came back to the new RoR as it was created?
Because it is unique and guard is one of its unique features.

What you are proposing is the worst proposal on the forum so far.

One thing that can be easily done (I've been advocating this since the introduction is a pointless change) is to reverse the change in 20 sec cd to punts in snb spec.
It's hard for me to conclude what the devs were guided by when they introduced such a change reducing the usefulness of snb tanks (I'm just guessing that they were at the time heavily influenced by the person who lobbied for strengthening the role of 2h tank and downplaying snb spec).

Anyway even if I would play snb I can't imagine not having tactics for super punt even with 20 sec cd.

[JohnnyWayne]

Okay, if you don't like a cooldown of guard ability then it could be some debuff on groupmate for 10 seconds not allowing to become guarded again after the guard is transferred to another group member.

Okay, if you don't like a core mechanic of the game, maybe play something more to your liking. Mainstream flavorless, bland. World of Warcraft for example.

core mechanic of this game is all buffs can be removed by special abilities exept guard, even Vigilance can be removed from the Kotbs or similar ability has RP and Zealot are Grimnir's Shield/Embrace the Warp abilities that reduce only incoming damage by 50% and they all can be removed as buffs, do not confuse with detaunts

None of those have such stern requirement of positioning as guard has. Not even close. Your "removing" aka counter play, is punting. And with snares the distance is quite sufficient to kill a target also. You sir, have a skill issues. That is personal and not of the game.

[Battlefield]

Okay, if you don't like a core mechanic of the game, maybe play something more to your liking. Mainstream flavorless, bland. World of Warcraft for example.

core mechanic of this game is all buffs can be removed by special abilities exept guard, even Vigilance can be removed from the Kotbs or similar ability has RP and Zealot are Grimnir's Shield/Embrace the Warp abilities that reduce only incoming damage by 50% and they all can be removed as buffs, do not confuse with detaunts

None of those have such stern requirement of positioning as guard has. Not even close. Your "removing" aka counter play, is punting. And with snares the distance is quite sufficient to kill a target also. You sir, have a skill issues. That is personal and not of the game.

These are temporary buffs from the example, and the guard is permanent without any cooldown

This is not my full quote, you seem to have missed something. Okay, I'll do it for you.

core mechanic when 1 ability on a permanent basis that can't be removed reduces all incoming damage by 50% without any cooldown like an infinite bubble and tanks can swap it every second so 2 tanks can almost guard the entire group.

core mechanic when punt distance maybe 60-80ft and the radius of the guard is 30ft

core mechanic when players playing in voice use tricks after punt and dps runs to tank without losing damage reduction from guard

core mechanic when someone rooted and gave the tank immune to be knocked back for 20 seconds not allowing to use punt

core mechanic when the enemy tank is waiting for a knockback from you and he keeps you in focus without turning backwards towards you, and he also has a high parry or block chance (this often happens in scenarios or vs premades)

Need to make punt for tanks undefendable and increases the distance of punt or reduce radius of the guard ability to 25ft or even 20ft and add 10 or 20 seconds of cooldown to the guard ability.

Gives to WH/WE an ability that will remove guard from the target, let's say, once a minute or 2, guard is a buff and against buffs in this game there are abilities to remove them.

Guard ability was made for melee dps to survive in big fights and even after that it will still perform its task

[Aethilmar]

I have been avoiding posting this not to restart a different fight but the problem the OP is describing is not with guard it is with healing and/or single-target damage nerfs.

In the original game, guard was applied to healers first and mdps second. And that was because healers had less healing output and were generally less durable than in this iteration.

The healing changes here have happened due to the emphasis on mass RvR and high aoe damage whereas the original game was focused around 6 man and single target. Indeed the single-target damage in this game has been significantly nerfed compared to live where it was not uncommon to not get up after a WE/WH knocked you down.

This exact same system was also used in SW:TOR and worked fine there. The primary difference being a legitimate strategy was something called "tank tunnelling" where your high dps would hard swap onto the tank and kill them to remove their ability to guard or at least force the healer (who was also mostly single target) to swap so you could swap back to the intended victim.

Overall I think guard is fine here. But even if there was a problem, its not that the concept of guard was always too powerful its that the folks balancing this iteration didn't properly take it into account when messing with healers and dps.

Maybe DPS will become more single-target potent after the next patch (I wouldn't bet on it) but that would likely solve your problem with guard as well.

[Battlefield]

I have been avoiding posting this not to restart a different fight but the problem the OP is describing is not with guard it is with healing and/or single-target damage nerfs.

In the original game, guard was applied to healers first and mdps second. And that was because healers had less healing output and were generally less durable than in this iteration.

The healing changes here have happened due to the emphasis on mass RvR and high aoe damage whereas the original game was focused around 6 man and single target. Indeed the single-target damage in this game has been significantly nerfed compared to live where it was not uncommon to not get up after a WE/WH knocked you down.

This exact same system was also used in SW:TOR and worked fine there. The primary difference being a legitimate strategy was something called "tank tunnelling" where your high dps would hard swap onto the tank and kill them to remove their ability to guard or at least force the healer (who was also mostly single target) to swap so you could swap back to the intended victim.

Overall I think guard is fine here. But even if there was a problem, its not that the concept of guard was always too powerful its that the folks balancing this iteration didn't properly take it into account when messing with healers and dps.

Maybe DPS will become more single-target potent after the next patch (I wouldn't bet on it) but that would likely solve your problem with guard as well.

The healers in this game are very strong, for example I've played WP 70rr+ and somtimes 2 Witches could not kill me I successfully ran to warcamp or to the keep with them, of course not always but this happened more than once fore sure. Besides, not all the dps in the game play with healing debuff, for example some WH may play without any healing debuff or use only bullets to just cut outgoing healing (it's worse than incoming.) or some WLs play in 1-3, Sorc does not have healing debuff, Magus/Engi, Marauders can play without special tactic or just play in Path of Brutality.

I'm not even talking about the fact that healers can remove debuffs and as a result they may cleanse healing debuff.

Ideally, it would be possible to make it so that when a tank guards a healer, the healing of such a healer would be at least slightly reduced

Or when max regen 2h tanks play crossguard, I play sometimes so too and it's unfair but on the other hand this is the only option to survive somehow against premades in RvR playing with a friend.

[Templa]

Yes, Monk has pvp ability is Avert Harm wich guard 4 closest players within 15 yards for 15 seconds to stagger 20% of damage they atake and this ability has 45 seconds cooldown, it is now.

Yes I mostly play 2-3 I use guard but I hate premades in this game they ruin all the fun of the game.

I have already described the problem that smart players when someone throws back a tank, the DPS that the tank is guarding runs to him, barely losing the damage reduction from the guard and, in fact, the punt as an anti-guard ability works poorly and that 2 tanks can guard almost the entire group because the ability has no cooldown. And that the guard works both from below and from above if you knock back a tank from a height. Besieds punt may be parried or blocked and after 20 seconds immune to be knocked back.

Other issue, what is the punt distance of Chosen/Kotbs and SM/BO? 60ft or 80ft and when guard is 30ft?

Idea is to add to some class the ability to remove the guard buff from the target, like some bless,hex,curse,aliment but with big cooldown, it could be some mpds maybe WH/WE. It's definitely a feature of this game, isn't it?

i guess. maybe a rework could happen, maybe devs implement an ability that cleanses guard from target. it could add a bit more depth to burst setups and the usual rotation of punting, running, kd and detaunt. For me i am happy with it as it is currently.

[Battlefield]

Yes, Monk has pvp ability is Avert Harm wich guard 4 closest players within 15 yards for 15 seconds to stagger 20% of damage they atake and this ability has 45 seconds cooldown, it is now.

Yes I mostly play 2-3 I use guard but I hate premades in this game they ruin all the fun of the game.

I have already described the problem that smart players when someone throws back a tank, the DPS that the tank is guarding runs to him, barely losing the damage reduction from the guard and, in fact, the punt as an anti-guard ability works poorly and that 2 tanks can guard almost the entire group because the ability has no cooldown. And that the guard works both from below and from above if you knock back a tank from a height. Besieds punt may be parried or blocked and after 20 seconds immune to be knocked back.

Other issue, what is the punt distance of Chosen/Kotbs and SM/BO? 60ft or 80ft and when guard is 30ft?

Idea is to add to some class the ability to remove the guard buff from the target, like some bless,hex,curse,aliment but with big cooldown, it could be some mpds maybe WH/WE. It's definitely a feature of this game, isn't it?

i guess. maybe a rework could happen, maybe devs implement an ability that cleanses guard from target. it could add a bit more depth to burst setups and the usual rotation of punting, running, kd and detaunt. For me i am happy with it as it is currently.

Or devs can make it simpler by making a guard in the form of an aura that will reduce incoming damage to the entire group by 20-25%, may even increase the range a little. The punt is not only used against the guard, is it?

I'm adding all the options in 1 post, let them decide for themselves.

[Alubert]

I have been avoiding posting this not to restart a different fight but the problem the OP is describing is not with guard it is with healing and/or single-target damage nerfs.

In the original game, guard was applied to healers first and mdps second. And that was because healers had less healing output and were generally less durable than in this iteration.

The healing changes here have happened due to the emphasis on mass RvR and high aoe damage whereas the original game was focused around 6 man and single target. Indeed the single-target damage in this game has been significantly nerfed compared to live where it was not uncommon to not get up after a WE/WH knocked you down.

This exact same system was also used in SW:TOR and worked fine there. The primary difference being a legitimate strategy was something called "tank tunnelling" where your high dps would hard swap onto the tank and kill them to remove their ability to guard or at least force the healer (who was also mostly single target) to swap so you could swap back to the intended victim.

Overall I think guard is fine here. But even if there was a problem, its not that the concept of guard was always too powerful its that the folks balancing this iteration didn't properly take it into account when messing with healers and dps.

Maybe DPS will become more single-target potent after the next patch (I wouldn't bet on it) but that would likely solve your problem with guard as well.

Let me disagree with you.
ST dmg is adequate. And even too strong after adding armor pene additions to some classes.

This AOE dmg vs ST dmg is exaggerated and too strong and should in the upcoming dps balance be drastically reduced especially AOE channels.

You write that on live server tank guard healers. Sometimes yes but that was due to ignorance just like in my old guild on live. Tanks were told to guard healers because a dead healer doesn't heal at all. Of course this was paid for with the massacre of our dps. In those days guard swap was rare.

But this has nothing to do with defensive healers and healing output on live.

To visualize how tough healers on live were especially dok/wp imagine now the toughest tank from our server, add odjira to it and add 180 armor talismans, add LOD gear, add generally less armor pene.
Also you are very wrong. Healers on live were tough. If someone says healers now are tough he is hugely wrong vs live server healers here are very soft.