Classes shouldn't be balanced equally between faction mirrors

[Tuffy]

...
in tabletop ... dwarves are an extremely defensive race
...

Marching column + dwarf cart + rune of haste & urgency from anvil of doom + vanguard banner and suddnely sluggish dwarfs are in their opponents deployment zone turn 1 ready to wreak havoc

I mean yeah, but like you said they are still sluggish

If we had vehicles and mounted combat it would be an entirely different mmo

[REWENGA]

0/10 ragebait

Come on, it's so obvious that it can't be considered either bait or rage, it was just a little laugh!

But at this point, I'm curious to know your opinion on the 98% damage immunity for the WL pet (only AOE, of course. lol)

[Gunlinger]

Well fact is, that OP is right. The Meta of RoR is melee front blob. And everything that is not melee front blob is denied almost everything that could hinder the melee blob to have THEIR furn. So you are an Order range class in second row with a line of tanks to let you shoot the blob freely? HA jokes on you. Your Tanks that hold the line at the choke point simply get yoinked away by the enemy melee front line itself and get shredded inside that bulk of body block. You still try and blow out your strongest Abilities onto them. Ha jokes on you again! Your strongest AOE forces you to fight mid range around 40-60 feet. And you as well get yoinked into that same melee blob. On top of that your AOE does so little dmg to them that they not even consider you as a treat. Because it was made sure that all your strong situational abilities either take long time to build up dmg, have long cooldowns or have to be placed on the ground while the battle is constantly moving. Oh and your big AOE can not overlap each other! 50 melee can have channel front cleave AOE hit the same target at 40 feet while moving around. But your ground placed Aoe channel that forces you to stand still at mid range is not allowed to do any dmg when there is someone of your own class hitting the same spot with 1 more point in mastery. In Warhammer Fantasy lore the End Times have showed us that Destruction will just overrun everything and bring everything to an end.
Good to see that the balance team is making sure that one by one the classes on the order side are ''balanced'' to abide to that lore and get weaker and weaker patch by patch to finally be able to actually see the END TIME.

- Revert that mess that turned Slayer into paper dolls. Dwarfs are supposed to be stout and durable as stone by nature
- either make ground based AOE be stack able again and just add -50% dmg to it when overlapping or get rid of it at all. Makes no sense to have mechanics around those ground based stuff and then not even doing any dmg with it, while melees could theoretically stack 100 channels above each other without any malus.
- Give base line root brake to Order range classes. Destro has monopoly on:

- DoK slow proc
- melee blob GtdC front row pull
- zealot/MsH channel Punt that does not give any immunity
- absolute unbalanced faster moral pumt to an ammount that they will always reach m3 while order barely scatches m2

Balance is gone for long now. The hopes we had for the reworks have been gone since Tank rework. We just kept telling our self that the next Archtype rework maybe bring balance.
And yet here we are again. Seeing clearly where the train is heading.
Can't wait to see how Engi will get the same treatment Slayer got. Not that it would surprise us anymore. By now, the only thing that keeps me playing this unbalanced mess are the friends and guildis i meet daily in discord and ingame.

[M0rw47h]

Well fact is, that OP is right. The Meta of RoR is melee front blob. And everything that is not melee front blob is denied almost everything that could hinder the melee blob to have THEIR furn. So you are an Order range class in second row with a line of tanks to let you shoot the blob freely? HA jokes on you. Your Tanks that hold the line at the choke point simply get yoinked away by the enemy melee front line itself and get shredded inside that bulk of body block. You still try and blow out your strongest Abilities onto them. Ha jokes on you again! Your strongest AOE forces you to fight mid range around 40-60 feet. And you as well get yoinked into that same melee blob. On top of that your AOE does so little dmg to them that they not even consider you as a treat. Because it was made sure that all your strong situational abilities either take long time to build up dmg, have long cooldowns or have to be placed on the ground while the battle is constantly moving. Oh and your big AOE can not overlap each other! 50 melee can have channel front cleave AOE hit the same target at 40 feet while moving around. But your ground placed Aoe channel that forces you to stand still at mid range is not allowed to do any dmg when there is someone of your own class hitting the same spot with 1 more point in mastery. In Warhammer Fantasy lore the End Times have showed us that Destruction will just overrun everything and bring everything to an end.
Good to see that the balance team is making sure that one by one the classes on the order side are ''balanced'' to abide to that lore and get weaker and weaker patch by patch to finally be able to actually see the END TIME.

- Revert that mess that turned Slayer into paper dolls. Dwarfs are supposed to be stout and durable as stone by nature
- either make ground based AOE be stack able again and just add -50% dmg to it when overlapping or get rid of it at all. Makes no sense to have mechanics around those ground based stuff and then not even doing any dmg with it, while melees could theoretically stack 100 channels above each other without any malus.
- Give base line root brake to Order range classes. Destro has monopoly on:

- DoK slow proc
- melee blob GtdC front row pull
- zealot/MsH channel Punt that does not give any immunity
- absolute unbalanced faster moral pumt to an ammount that they will always reach m3 while order barely scatches m2

Balance is gone for long now. The hopes we had for the reworks have been gone since Tank rework. We just kept telling our self that the next Archtype rework maybe bring balance.
And yet here we are again. Seeing clearly where the train is heading.
Can't wait to see how Engi will get the same treatment Slayer got. Not that it would surprise us anymore. By now, the only thing that keeps me playing this unbalanced mess are the friends and guildis i meet daily in discord and ingame.

The only thing order needs is AoE aSW spec (1 range mastery tree and two melee [AoE+ST]).
rDPS is supposed to be "retarded" compared to melee, otherwise there is no point in playing melee at all.

...and maybe moving pounce away from WL to Slayer.

P.S.
Order rdps has baseline root break, it's called Focused Mind.

[Farrul]

...and maybe moving pounce away from WL to Slayer.

P.S.
Order rdps has baseline root break, it's called Focused Mind.

So the solution to the slayer is to nerf the WL further?

Or how about not introducing completely unnecessary nerfs like -25 armor/res in yellow which makes the class probably the worst it's ever been? I know logics.

[Farrul]

WL pet should be resistant to aoe damage by 98 or 99% (wow fixed this issue a long time ago) so they could actually have more diversity in warbands and actually use the pet to the faction's benefit rather than being a divebomb that tries to nuke 1 target and dies or a worse marauder

RoR devs ( and i mean no offence just honest statement) has shown no ability or understanding of how to balance or fix pets in this game. Yes other games like WoW the devs there understood that you can't make pets vulnerable to AOE and viable at the same time. It just doesn't work for melee pets ( SH pets or ranged pets are semi workable in large scale but would still suffer). Add to that the stupid cooldown of 15 seconds to the white lion(pet) and you have a permanetly dead pet in warband large scale battles.

'loner tactic' is not utility nor an option, it is functioning as a replacement for the broken class mechanic in the most played aspect of the game, large scale RvR warband battles, the pet has been relegated to a small scale away from AOE battles role.Considering this is the actual class mechanic of the class(pet) we are talking about, then the situation is nothing but embarrassing.

There has been so many threads over the years, so many valid points made about how to fix the White lion class mechanic( Pet) yet it has all fallen on deaf ears, i'm afraid there isn't much hope here. Accept it or move on.

[Nameless]

At some point ror devs removed pets from group heal selection. Not that this will fix pets but such change is imo quite questionable

[M0rw47h]

...and maybe moving pounce away from WL to Slayer.

P.S.
Order rdps has baseline root break, it's called Focused Mind.

So the solution to the slayer is to nerf the WL further?

Or how about not introducing completely unnecessary nerfs like -25 armor/res in yellow which makes the class probably the worst it's ever been? I know logics.

Nerf WL? Depends how you look at it, but I guess Slayer would lose something in exchange to get that Pounce, while WL would gain it *shrug*. You can't have cake and eat cake. Logic.

[Bozzax]

Guys if you check stats you’ll notice order kill more then destruction since patch and are more effective as well.

Lions and masters even wo heals are consistently (over?)represented on top 10 killers. Pets are quite a lot better here on RoR and not as easy to dispose or slow as it used to be. Lets not push for further buffs please.

A good guess is that mobile and medium armoured WLs with better aoe (compared to live) will rule slayers and bws. Mostly based on the observation that no other class has gotten so much love attention by balancers.

Another quite reasonable bet is that BWs and Slayers wont have much love coming (since destruction as a whole is trailing).

[Tuffy]

Guys if you check stats you’ll notice order kill more then destruction since patch and are more effective as well.

Lions and masters even wo heals are consistently (over?)represented on top 10 killers. Pets are quite a lot better here on RoR and not as easy to dispose or slow as it used to be. Lets not push for further buffs please.

A good guess is that mobile and medium armoured WLs with better aoe (compared to live) will rule slayers and bws. Mostly based on the observation that no other class has gotten so much love attention by balancers.

Another quite reasonable bet is that BWs and Slayers wont have much love coming (since destruction as a whole is trailing).

Do you have a link to the stats? I do see wls being high on the killboard and in thewarcamp but it'd be nice to know how many of those are from small scale and roaming. And the thing about pet aoe dmg reduction is to make more gameplay types viable other than being forced into loner in large scale, you can argue even WH have more build diversity in skirmishes

and ofc this isn't to say to only buff order, my point is not to have a matter of buff one side over the other, i speak about order because it's the side i have experience with. I don't know about the state of marauder builds for example, i do know it's population significantly dropped tho