BUFF the BG already

[Sever1n]

Ib str buffs stack?

[Sinisterror]

bg got knock down because ib has it.

there were handful of changes between them.
IB got outgoing HD because BG has it.
BG's now willpower buff used to debuff cast time by 1 sec.

Bg Should get cast time increased by 1s skill. And they should also work on Melees again, Like Am/Rp Morale 1 does work on melees, all other cast time increasers are percentages so just change them to 05-1s Base Increased. Something new actually good and useful but not too OP.

[Wdova]

Order SM cooldown decreaser: AM - EoVB spam, Slayer ID spam, SW Barage/LA spam
Destro BG cooldown decreaser: Shamman - FoDG, ?

Is really cooldown decreaser worth it on BG?

[nocturnalguest]

Ib str buffs stack?

What do you mean? With each other? No, they dont stack with each other obviously. IB buffs stack with pots like other abilities nowdays.

[Cyrylius]

Well, msh gets to spam channel which enables its damage. Shammy/am healing is no longer so crazily reliant on cd reduction and slayers seem to be kind of returning but they generally speaking want all 3 order tanks for various reasons so SM interactions aren't especially impressive overall. Tbh, biggest beneficiaries of WW/gravfasta are marauder and WL, funnily enough, since they have a number of strong AoE abilities with less than 10 seconds of cd, and getting more casts of them is generally good. That said, SM has well structured mastery trees with clear purpose for each, a luxury BG lacks. Middle tree has no real utility but is required in each build for avoidance buffs, KD in 2h requires left tree, right tree has a good ability on top but no tactics (I don't respect ET, fight me), getting a working build on BG is just painful. 2h bg still has a viable and strong build with CD, and it's performing well in small parties just because it's a durable and hard to remove utility tank with a good punt, but that kind of exhausts the build diversity. Snb BG can go mid tree to be very durable and absolutely worthless for a warband that can pick a chosen or blork instead. Or you can spec right tree which gets you a good buff that's still not enough to justify you over any tank with self morale pump. You used to be able to run a 2h BG in orvr just for the buffs, but it seems the damage in there is also high enough to invalidate that playstyle nowadays. I'm also aware solo BG was murdered by removal of bolstering anger, even if I don't play it. I do think BG needs buffs, I just don't see the channel of all things being the underperforming ability. It does its job, even if worse than other options, and even then as long as its damage is somewhat similar to chosen one the game shouldn't suffer too much for it. But channel buff will not fix the snb spec, and likely won't have much effect on solo capabilities. Order has a healthy internal balance for snb tanks, surely destro could eventually get there too.

[Florian90210]

What you guys think about Non shall pass ability? It looks like good candiade to be changed for something useful. 20 sec CD is very bad in RvR when engineers spam their flashbangs.

[Farrul]

Order SM cooldown decreaser: AM - EoVB spam, Slayer ID spam, SW Barage/LA spam
Destro BG cooldown decreaser: Shamman - FoDG, ?

Is really cooldown decreaser worth it on BG?

BG should be given the GnM equvialent back ( like IB). Not sure why devs messed with the better original design.

[Lescargo]

Crazy how on this game ppls constantly begging to get their class buffed like cmon just accept your class boons and cons. And yeah balance is no perfect, it will never be.

You are buffing someone then someone else gonna cry because they underperform against the new buffed class etc etc.. this is pointless.

[Alubert]

Order SM cooldown decreaser: AM - EoVB spam, Slayer ID spam, SW Barage/LA spam
Destro BG cooldown decreaser: Shamman - FoDG, ?

Is really cooldown decreaser worth it on BG?

BG should be given the GnM equvialent back ( like IB). Not sure why devs messed with the better original design.

No.
BG need utility for party not self heal.

[Alubert]

Well, msh gets to spam channel which enables its damage. Shammy/am healing is no longer so crazily reliant on cd reduction and slayers seem to be kind of returning but they generally speaking want all 3 order tanks for various reasons so SM interactions aren't especially impressive overall. Tbh, biggest beneficiaries of WW/gravfasta are marauder and WL, funnily enough, since they have a number of strong AoE abilities with less than 10 seconds of cd, and getting more casts of them is generally good. That said, SM has well structured mastery trees with clear purpose for each, a luxury BG lacks. Middle tree has no real utility but is required in each build for avoidance buffs, KD in 2h requires left tree, right tree has a good ability on top but no tactics (I don't respect ET, fight me), getting a working build on BG is just painful. 2h bg still has a viable and strong build with CD, and it's performing well in small parties just because it's a durable and hard to remove utility tank with a good punt, but that kind of exhausts the build diversity. Snb BG can go mid tree to be very durable and absolutely worthless for a warband that can pick a chosen or blork instead. Or you can spec right tree which gets you a good buff that's still not enough to justify you over any tank with self morale pump. You used to be able to run a 2h BG in orvr just for the buffs, but it seems the damage in there is also high enough to invalidate that playstyle nowadays. I'm also aware solo BG was murdered by removal of bolstering anger, even if I don't play it. I do think BG needs buffs, I just don't see the channel of all things being the underperforming ability. It does its job, even if worse than other options, and even then as long as its damage is somewhat similar to chosen one the game shouldn't suffer too much for it. But channel buff will not fix the snb spec, and likely won't have much effect on solo capabilities. Order has a healthy internal balance for snb tanks, surely destro could eventually get there too.

Well said.

Clearly, snb BG needs some additional utility.
Maybe ET should be a 5-second buff with no limit on attacks per target?
Maybe then it should only give the ability to parry an attack without disrupting it?

In my opinion, FTWK/WW should disappear from the game, and in return, SM/BG should receive some other utility for the party.

Maybe BG/SM could get a friendly pull (they could pull a friendly target towards themselves) with a long cooldown, e.g. 1 min, and a range of 50-60 feet?

Or anything else that would make them stand out, especially BG.

2h BG is very good.
People complain, but BG is a tank that has 5 tactics.
One is invisible because it doesn't waste a slot on a 10-second cooldown knockback tactic (which is mandatory for others).
IB has the same thing, but it has to carry at least one tactic on Grudge.