BW/Sorc - very high disrupt rates

[lumpi33]

I'd like to point out that the BWs/Sorcs are facing VERY high disrupt rates at the moment. Please do something about it.

Here is what they are usually facing in resist rates:

Vs healers I take WP as example: around 20% disrupt only from gear without renown abilities or tactics. Willpower tactic adds 5%. Deft Defender can push it another 18%. Shield of Fate tactic can push it another 10%. So as WP you can have 20+5+18+10 = 53% disrupt against magic if you go full defensive. Even if you don't use that SoF tactic and go only Deft Defender 3 you are sitting around 37% disrupt chance. This is usually the value SOV Healers are sitting at. Around 35% (with Deft Defender 3). Now if you look at the chance to dodge for healers, it is only around 17% (DD3). So on average they resist 1/3 of the magical attacks and dodge a bit less than 1/5 of physical attacks.

Vs tanks I want to point out that there are tactics like the Shielding Anger of BGs that gives them 25% disrupt at full hate. They can pump their defenses with block/disrupt/absorb to levels where they basically become immune to magical attacks. Other tanks might not have that 25% disrupt tactic but are still able to block/disrupt huge amounts.

Vs mdps. Here I pick WEs for example because of their Elixir of the Cauldron ability that let them disrupt 100% for 7s and outside of that they have their disappear, base disrupt, disrupt from deft defender and absorb.

Summary: It is a bit hard to explain the issue with the disrupts for BWs/Sorcs but a few things I can say for sure:
1. Healers sitting at pretty high disrupt levels. Around 35% while chance to dodge is only 17%. Some even reach levels of 50% disrupt.
2. Tanks defend a lot of spells with their disrupts and blocks. Some with 25% disrupt tactics basically turn immune when built defensive.
3. Rdps/Mdps disrupt levels seem to be okish with some standing out. Like the SHs with squig armor or WEs with all their tools.

Overall it is not fun to play BW/Sorc atm due to the high disrupt/dodge/block/absorb/immunity. They can even get 750 damage back at 100 power while the spell disrupts and does 0 damage. That is very punishing.

Please have a look at the disrupt vs dodge chances and levels for Tanks/Healers/Dps. Disrupts chances seem to be a lot higher than dodge chances.
Please review the costs of the Deft Defender renown ability. It seems to be too cheap.
Please think about a renown ability that counters Deft Defender and gives pierce.
Please have a look at abilities and tactics that give a lot of disrupt or defense like Shielding Anger.
Please think about if 750 damage back for a disrupt with 0 damage is fair for BWs/Sorcs.
Please think about giving BWs/Sorcs as primary magical damage dealers better tools to pierce disrupt/block.
Please think about if tank should "block" ranged attacks from behind.

I really think there needs to be done something about the high disrupts they are facing. If melees had such a high miss rate as BWs/Sorcs have disrupts on healers and tanks then the forum would be full of complaints.

Thanks!

[gisborne]

I've been thinking for quite a while now that disrupt should be removed from willpower and replaced with something else (imo 1% heal crit per 100 willpower). Move disrupt to initiative just like the other defensive stats.

On the other hand, I don't think it's correct to look at potential disrupt with certain tactics and abilities because in reality many of those tactics are not being run. Disrupt is not a high priority as a defensive stat, it's just that healers get it for free and the renown ability is so cheap.

[lumpi33]

I've been thinking for quite a while now that disrupt should be removed from willpower and replaced with something else (imo 1% heal crit per 100 willpower). Move disrupt to initiative just like the other defensive stats.

On the other hand, I don't think it's correct to look at potential disrupt with certain tactics and abilities because in reality many of those tactics are not being run. Disrupt is not a high priority as a defensive stat, it's just that healers get it for free and the renown ability is so cheap.

Yes, I agree. That disrupt from willpower should be removed again. It was a lot better before that change.

If they keep it as it is then classes like BW/Sorc need something to counter that with some pierce on their abilities or tactics or if they want to improve it for all magical classes then a renown ability that gives strike through.

Regarding the tactic I think it is a bit much to get 25% disrupt from one tactic. It's on a tank class so they have high physical mitigation as well. It shouldn't be possible to become almost immune to magic damage. I've seen BGs that were. I've also seen IBs with very high resist rates.

Atm it is very easy to pump disrupt. Healers get it for free with their willpower. Deft Defender is very cheap.

On the other hand there are barely any options to reduce the disrupt/block chance. Even if you go full -disrupt in gear you get like what? 15%ish But I don't see physical rdps classes having to focus on that -dodge. They are doing fine from what they get from sets. SoV Healers have around 35%ish disrupt and around 17%ish dodge. That's a pretty huge difference.

[lumpi33]

btw: In the early version of the game there was no Deft Defender.

There was Agility for dodge
https://web.archive.org/web/20080917005 ... x?id=14138

and there was Arcane Dismissal for disrupt
https://web.archive.org/web/20080917005 ... x?id=14142

5 point cost for the first level and only 2% each. So it was split and a lot more expensive.

I think we need something of a middle ground. A more expensive Deft Defender or cheaper but split up again. People should have to choose which type they want to defend more, not just ez pz both.

[gersy]

revert strikethrough change for dodge/disrupt, that is the most simple fix

ST rdps, especially sorc and bw, have turned in to slot machine whether or not you get your rotation off and it feels very abd to play. players being able to have 5 or 10, even more in some cases, of an avoidance that is uncounterable despite having enough strikethrough to do so is poor design

used to play sorc with a ~24% strikethrough build which ensured most dps and 2h tanks would not be able to interrupt the rotation in SCs and smallscale and now any random SL with RP and 1-2 points in to deft defender will have a 1 in 10 chance to randomly destroy your rotation. funniest is when you know they've got about 10% and they managed to avoid 3-4x in a row

[lumpi33]

revert strikethrough change for dodge/disrupt, that is the most simple fix

ST rdps, especially sorc and bw, have turned in to slot machine whether or not you get your rotation off and it feels very abd to play. players being able to have 5 or 10, even more in some cases, of an avoidance that is uncounterable despite having enough strikethrough to do so is poor design

used to play sorc with a ~24% strikethrough build which ensured most dps and 2h tanks would not be able to interrupt the rotation in SCs and smallscale and now any random SL with RP and 1-2 points in to deft defender will have a 1 in 10 chance to randomly destroy your rotation. funniest is when you know they've got about 10% and they managed to avoid 3-4x in a row

A 1 out of 10 would be totally fine but I had situations on the BW where I was attacking a BG that was walking away from me, so facing back to me, and it was just disrupt after disrupt, like 7 out of 10. With maxed int and even some investment in -disrupt. That's not fun. That's for sure an extreme case but there are a freaking lot resists, no matter who you attack.

Something seems very wrong with that disrupt system.

[lumpi33]

used to play sorc with a ~24% strikethrough build

Can you explain what has changed?

[nocturnalguest]

History repeats itself

Here is a topic that says (and explains) everything which can be said about this not very cool situation
viewtopic.php?t=59544

[gersy]

used to play sorc with a ~24% strikethrough build

Can you explain what has changed?

in terms of the build or why i changed away from that? if you mean the build mostly just dropping tri gloves and sent tali (which gave a combined +9% strikethrough at the time).

if you mean what changed in the patch i mentioned - a couple years ago there was a change that made strikethrough cap at 50% of a defender's effective avoidance (not counting buffs/debuffs like pierce defense).

for a super basic example if you have 20% disrupt and I have 20% strikethrough then you have 10% disrupt. not the 0% as you would think which is how it originally worked.

[lumpi33]

if you mean what changed in the patch i mentioned - a couple years ago there was a change that made strikethrough cap at 50% of a defender's effective avoidance (not counting buffs/debuffs like pierce defense).

for a super basic example if you have 20% disrupt and I have 20% strikethrough then you have 10% disrupt. not the 0% as you would think which is how it originally worked.

Ah ok. This is weird. Strike through is a lot harder to get.