[PTS] AoE Sorc feedback

[wonshot]

Hello,

Ill try to keep the feedback seperated. So only gonna cover AoE Sorc in this one.
Made a video with some more indepth talking/listening points while going over the relevant adjustments to the aoe warband sorc builds and playstyle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-aQ7F_t6MM

As for forum debate here are my general thoughts and some suggestions for adjustments

First of all, I think the biggest issue aoe sorc was facing before the patch was "Strikethrough"
This patch sorta tackles it, is it enough(?) is it done correcltly. Im not sure, let me know what you think.

An other personal hope I had, was that BW/Sorc would get more mechanical play. Getting more useage or incentive to play the mechanic and not just rushing to 100Dark Magic/Combustion and staying there. This didnt happen, and argubly it got made slightly worse now that aoe sorc closerange can potentially skip useing SP completly. Not my favorit direction, but what do the rest of you think?

As for Casted aoe spells Im personally under the impression that Casted spells are outdated outside of healers, standing still and unloading 3second casts can be compared with playing a Season1 League of Legends immobile character vs a new modern mobility overloaded champion. Black Horror sorta solves that, but what about Close Quaters? Could something more maybe be done here on this tactic, as the setback reduction added is nice. But 25ft closerange casting can still be countered by aoe interrupt in melee range. You can get CCed. Your anchor target can die before you finish casting and then you effectively deal zero aoedps. Or the target moves out of your 25ft CQ range and your casttimes are then normal. The counters to closerange casting are just so much more severe than pbaoe spamming, and the advantages dont seem to be making the risk/reward make sense.

With Magus getting their pbaoe close range channel able on the move, I wonder if Close Quaters tactic on the 3 mages could maybe just tackle this more in one. As CQ tactic of untargetable spells (Rift, summon horror etc)spells only really benefit Magus out of the three mages. CQ could be used to impower the pbaoe mage channels with a mobility debuff while doing it at saw 80% of normal movementspeed while channeling. Thoughts?

Overall. I feel like aoe Sorc got most of its issues touched on. Alot of unused tactics were made almost top4 candidates, so thats very nice!
The Shatter M2 removable is a big topic, I tried to cover it with a suggestion of the New M4 allowing IW to be down to Zero seconds CD only under the M3 effect for a 10sec offensive burst window.

[Mishas]

With Magus getting their pbaoe close range channel able on the move, I wonder if Close Quaters tactic on the 3 mages could maybe just tackle this more in one. As CQ tactic of untargetable spells (Rift, summon horror etc)spells only really benefit Magus out of the three mages. CQ could be used to impower the pbaoe mage channels with a mobility debuff while doing it at saw 80% of normal movementspeed while channeling. Thoughts?

Magus just got that buff into one of the career skills, agonizing torrent. Warpfire does still break while moving. I wish we got that for Warpfire too ^^.

[OceanSoul]

I feel like the main issue is that a toolkit Sorcs have is catered around static fights. I really don't know the reasons of buffing Gloom and Black Horror, they both seems to be not that good even after buffs. The main reason is Sorc lacking any mobility, which forces you to aggressively stick to the WB leader and 1-1.5s cast is 1-1.5s of not moving. Same goes with supposed use of Focused Mind as DPS means - you are forced to spam SS, and it basically means that you WILL miss the next channels calls, because your WB leader is playing proper melee class that has jugger and sprint. Not even talking about issues with tab targeting proper body in order to deliver DPS in a right spot, about WB leader targets dying really fast because everyone assists on it, etc.

I wasn't testing a lot, but if Shadow Knives are worth channeling more than 1 tick now - mb it helps a bit, if not - welp, then sorcs have lost whatever bits of impact they've still had with Shatter removal. Its straight up dead weight without Shatter, snowflake that needs BO and BG in order to be functional, and ROI is like slightly better DPS than regular melee guy. And btw, every class benefits from BG and BO in their grp anyway.

Really disappointed, i was hoping they will remake all the useless talents, and skills that we use only for a single tick on the move.

Glad BWs are getting buffed, really nice utility stuff, gz. Its a pattern though, when mirror classes get so divergent changes (Choppa vs Slayer is the most recent). Makes me think that balance team is just skewed in terms of what they play, so certain classes are getting more attention while the others get whatever time left.

Btw the reasons of Shatter removal (too many morals) feels like a joke or trolling. Cant say how i really feel, probably end up getting banned.

[Bozzax]

Shatter removal is very bad yes for a WB centric class

[wonshot]

Btw the reasons of Shatter removal (too many morals) feels like a joke or trolling. Cant say how i really feel, probably end up getting banned.

I do feel you on this one. That argumentation was both wierd and the impact of removal of Shatter, seems way more drastic than potentially leaving one extra morale two option in the game. Would be curious to see data on how many sorcs run the st sypon, and the group damage mitigation option over FM or Shatter.

In the video I tried to argue a case of sorc getting IW spam back as it seemed to fit the directional theme of ranged/casting sorc and not so much icespike spammy clone of the Flamebreath BW build.

[Demonito]

[...] personal hope I had, was that BW/Sorc would get more mechanical play.
[...] As for Casted aoe spells Im personally under the impression that Casted spells are outdated

I feel like the main issue is that a toolkit Sorcs have is catered around static fights

+1

Had big dreams too but not much changed
Sorc stats are not improved by much and no new fancy spell
To spam Ice Spikes before every fight still is annoying
2s cast for a slow is bad when RP can slow on a dot
The DoT/AoE burst is huge but you kill yourself really fast while being squishy
Meanwhile magus do better without malus buff armor/wounds, slow/stun... and now tp to safety
Not to mention heal dps
Gonna stop here on what problems still remain
Just unzoom and see how little sorc/bw got in compare of others, imo they deserve more fun stuff
Really feels sorc was way under the pile, hope it won't take years for more attention
I also don't know why an unbreakable root, on a tactic... like giving a gun to a baby
Sry if this topic is only to focus AoE changes, would be nice to talk sorc without opening more threads
My 3 wishes :
Dirsrupt strikethrough on Dark Magic level
Dhar Wind on the move so you can reset Dark Magic n Kite if no heal to help
More CC

[live4treasure]

In my opinion, if the current patch goes live we will see far less sorcs in organized warbands.

[Endari]

I almost never play aoe sorc, just don't like that gameplay so take this as you will but I don't see how Cruel Reprisal does anything for the disrupt problem. It does not bypass disrupt, only procs every 2 seconds for pathetic damage and does not crit and you say its kinda soft mirror of flashfire? flashfire is good in both st and aoe and core tactic. this garbage must be spec'd from agony and I don't see it making into my tactic bar as a st sorc as it does not solve the problem of my timestamp getting disrupted.

[OceanSoul]

Cruel Reprisal does almost nothing, and its not even comparable to the Flashfire. Multiple reasons, but mainly because it doesn't crit, so all of the Sorc's scaling does nothing to it; you are not choosing the target of the payback like you do with Flashfire, ie you are not in the control of which entity will receive the dmg; int and -disrupt chance stacking makes the tactic worse.

Even if you make it crit, still, the fact that you can't control where the dmg goes makes it quite bad for wb play, compared to Flashfire. God i hope it wasn't made as a direct copy of Flashfire, because if it was + if the rationale behind removing Shatters is real, then its joever and balance team doesn't play the game at all. Because the main thing that makes Flashfire so good is the fact that you can proc it from high def targets and deliver the payback of your spell being disrupted to new target, unrelated to the one you've proc against.

At best, it might be ok-ish for freshly 40, imo, climbing up to the sov.

In the video I tried to argue a case of sorc getting IW spam back as it seemed to fit the directional theme of ranged/casting sorc and not so much icespike spammy clone of the Flamebreath BW build.

IW is hard capped at 5s min, and it was my main build prior to this patch. Its neat that sleight makes it a bit easier to rotate since it reduces DC cooldown, and you need only a single filler, but its really nothing more than QOL. Usually, you either keep your channels or use it conservatively for the leaders call anyway.

Personally, seems like i will be trying Close Quarters build, seems like its the "intended" way assuming Focused Mind is regarded as the means to increase DPS. Mb with a new mov speed staff proc? Idk. Looking at tanks shield with their -30% mov speed proc i fear that close range sorcs wont be viable at all.

[Keula]

You didn't mention the greatest thing out of the new sleight of hand, 3s cd Gloomburst! That's 375 aoe morale dmg around you every 3s, yea you literally blow yourself up and the range is only 25ft, but who cares, just go full wounds or something.

Surely that's a real build and not a complete meme... No shatter is big minus for that type of play, how does wind-woven/darkstar cloak stack with guard? Maybe just try to survive with those or something. Or, to add more on this meme, I propose lengthening shadows tactic to also also to affect piercing shadows, maybe only like 90% meme with that in mind.