Preventing regen items from stacking with each others

[nocturnalguest]

People here mention that counterplay doesnt exist while i absolutely dont get it. Why dont you refuse to consider building your char for solo play as one? Isnt running yourself in solo build not counterplay to fight enemies that are also build for solo? Not even mentioning the most obvious one that this game is all about - The Group Play!
DefWE vs. solo roam WH vs. Regen tanks vs. DPS AM/sham vs. any other kind of solo builds that do exist for every class like SuperStart mention. All of those are doable. Some classes are slightly better and will have an advantage, but in no way match up of e.g. regen tank vs dps am/sham gonna be a total wreckage. Yes, regen tank in ideal conditions will lose. However there are no ideal conditions meet in reality. Its down to who have better reaction, how engagement happen (in what favor) and most crucial of who manage GCDs better. And if someone got completely destroyed as properly build/geared regen tank vs. DPS AM/sham then thats clearly l2p issue or bad engagement (like if tank meets AM/sham from 100ft in the open field, then yes, no chance, so tank should a) pick fights better b) run away).
Also im absolutely frustrated seeing words like "balance" for 1v1/X niche. Guys, really?!
Amount of cliche of like "if cloth then needs to die fast" or "if cloth then shouldnt have selfsustain" is also astonishing...
Game needs diversity. Diversity in everything, playstyles, game modes etc. Narrowing them down is always a very bad idea. Widening them, making more options somewhat viable is always a very good idea. Its that simple.
What the heck are we discussing again...
Stop whining, its dangerous out there so prepare yourself.

[Caduceus]

Game needs diversity. Diversity in everything, playstyles, game modes etc. Narrowing them down is always a very bad idea.

I don't see how regen specs contribute anything in the area of diversity. If anything it pushes literally every other class and spec out of the solo scene.

That's what I mean when I say there is no counterplay to regen specs - you either build regen or you lose by default. It's that simple.

And if you build your character to fit the meme, you get to take a dump on every player who is trying to gear for the actual purpose of RoR - group play - and they will have ZERO counterplay.


This is not a healthy situation at all.


Of course if you build your character optimized for solo, you should have an advantage. But regen builds take this to the extreme. The defensive advantage is decisive and purely based on itemization.

Back when the defensive memes weren't as widespread, the match ups were a lot more volatile and equal.

[Sulorie]

How can someone say regen builds have almost dps spec damage, while being unkillable?
Off spec WH with defensive skills aside, they all deal much less damage than group specs.

Without regen builds, guess what people will play solo... Classes with self-heal. Regen gear reduces the differences between classes with and without healing skills.

[reynor007]

any healer don't have that much avoidance + damage potential

I really don't understand what level you are talking about, def WE hits exclusively with corp damage and this damage is in no way comparable to any dps class, it's about the same as def magus.
I played with all classes, in all builds. def WE deals absolutely no damage if you stand still and have 40% corp resist
I'm wondering why you don't want to nerf the magus, magus have 12k hp, kills absolutely any class for a procast, dps magus, one of the strongest classes now, but no, everyone is worried about WE which deals as much as 400 additional damage

[wachlarz]

any healer don't have that much avoidance + damage potential

I really don't understand what level you are talking about, def WE hits exclusively with corp damage and this damage is in no way comparable to any dps class, it's about the same as def magus.
I played with all classes, in all builds. def WE deals absolutely no damage if you stand still and have 40% corp resist
I'm wondering why you don't want to nerf the magus, magus have 12k hp, kills absolutely any class for a procast, dps magus, one of the strongest classes now, but no, everyone is worried about WE which deals as much as 400 additional damage

And how fast U kill averange magus ? 6 sec ?

[Akalukz]

so basically this thread is.. I died in ORvR and waaaahhh. As I have been told many times by many players - get good.

[space44]

as a wise man once told me "get gud scrub"

[nocturnalguest]

Game needs diversity. Diversity in everything, playstyles, game modes etc. Narrowing them down is always a very bad idea.

I don't see how regen specs contribute anything in the area of diversity. If anything it pushes literally every other class and spec out of the solo scene.

That's what I mean when I say there is no counterplay to regen specs - you either build regen or you lose by default. It's that simple.

And if you build your character to fit the meme, you get to take a dump on every player who is trying to gear for the actual purpose of RoR - group play - and they will have ZERO counterplay.


This is not a healthy situation at all.


Of course if you build your character optimized for solo, you should have an advantage. But regen builds take this to the extreme. The defensive advantage is decisive and purely based on itemization.

Back when the defensive memes weren't as widespread, the match ups were a lot more volatile and equal.

Ok.
So basically what you propose is to remove regen so only ib/bg/am/sham will be viable for solo roaming? People will follow the path of least resistance thus nobody en mass would be solo roaming on anything but wh/ib/bg/am/sham and maybe dps dok. WE would become bottom tier roamer of mentioned classes. This will further lead to a total collapse of solo roaming. Duo+ would be absolutely mandatory to leave the warcamp.
This is what would narrow playstyles. And no, you will not see main sov/onslaught/triump mixed BWs solo roaming.
And tell me again why should AoE BW build for WB play or fort be able to tear apart solo speced WE? Every MMO has different builds for different purposes, tell me why RoR should be any different?
In regards to match ups being volatile and equal. That was never true, not in live, not here.

I be absolutely honest - i dont see any unhealthiness in whats going on with RoR in this regards. Absolutely 0.
You choose what you play:
- orvr WB
- fort
- city
- pug sc solo
- pug sc <6men
- pug sc 6men
- ranked solo
- 6v6/ranked group
- solo orvr roaming
- <6men orvr roaming
- 6men orvr roaming
- 12-18men orvr roaming
- solo pve
- group pve
For each of those game modes you choose appropriate build. You pick your tactics, masteries, spec RR, choose appropriate gear pieces. For PvP part you take into account a) your group composition b) enemy group composition. Builds up synergies, foresee required counters for enemy group composition. Thats it. To each of this "game modes" its own.

Regen only shines in solo orvr roaming and totally unnecessary anywhere else (with a slight exception of solo pve). Leave regen alone, its so niche and not important at all in a general scheme of things. All it does is opens up more possibilities to efficiently solo roam. Agree with Sulorie's statement too, it also opens up possibilities for classes that dont have strong built-in self heals to compete. Its widening playstyles. In every bloody PvP MMO solo play is always a battle of selfsustain, all builds done specifically to play solo are all about selfhealing/avoidance/regen whatever and in the very end who will outsustain opponent better. And always was and will be. So again, leave regen alone or replace it with other working possibilities of selfsustain for all classes. But if 2nd then the very big question appears of "Why?", i see no possible answers to this question beside "Just because" cause regen is already playing this role in RoR.

I dont understand you. Where that "not a healthy situation at all" is happening, could you elaborate? And share your view of what would be healthy please. Maybe i dont know/understand something about this game.

edit&addition: i mean, i can clearly read what you write. but i see 0 possible options to make it happen beside incredibly huge overhaul of all mastery trees/tactics/rr/game mechanic to make it happen with a glimpse of what could be considered as "somewhat balanced". just nerfing regen wont help in any way to make solo scen more diverse

[Paxsanarion]

Regen builds that have no utility in group play should just be removed altogether from the game. It's a group game. These regen memes only cater to solo playstyles. I see no reason why certain classes should remain gimped in solo play because "the game isn't balanced around solo" when other classes get to be gods in spite of this same axiom.

I don’t play solo as I try to always help the team win and typically I always play tanks or healers as those give me the most sense of enjoyment to help Order win…..even though I am not a great player .

I am curious though, as I have been playing this game off and on for years, I hear many folks perhaps the majority of folks saying this is a group game. I understand warband efficiency and synergies etc. however I tend to look at ROR as an Order vs Destruction game …..and all that entails ….meaning the aggregate classes of one side vs the other. Could be warbands or muliple warbands, could be 12 v 12, could be 6 v 6, could be solo stealth or solo friendly classes …..all contributing to their side to help team Order or team Destuction carry the overall war to the other side. Perhaps I am naive or perhaps with the lower population now vs live it is simply better to try to play group friendly classes and play in groups? Just musing on the big picture

My gripe isn't with solo playstyles.

The problem is that regen builds break the 1v1 balance in favor of a handful of classes, and their utility is limited to solo play only. In other words, it both breaks the game in a certain area, and has no real reason to be there in the first place.

Ironically, 1v1 actually used to be vaguely balanced before all the regen memery began.

Understood ….and this makes sense to me. I always appreciate your insight and contributions.

[Hulgore]

Like always on this forum, the average condescending biggot is here to explain that everything is fine with the game, and that you should question yourself (your skill), - which is their answer for every problem you may encounter while playing.

Let's quickly remind here that you don't need any skill with your regen build to win a fight. You just press your dps rotation and you end up winning, almost by accident, because you didnt actually win, your regen did.

I've seen in several occasions two-handed tanks with regen builds not dying with 3 damage dealers on their ass, while the damage dealers were dying and had to run away.
If you think that this is good for balance to allow god-classes in warbands to become ALSO god classes in 1v1-2-3, then try to activate the other half of your brain if you can